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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2013 > Jun > Jun 3

Re: Kathleen Marden on Coast to Coast

From: J. Maynard Gelinas <j.maynard.gelinas.nul>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:10:14 +0800
Archived: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 05:49:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Kathleen Marden on Coast to Coast

Ms Marden; Mr. Gammon,

May I interject and express an opinion? My statements below. But
please note that I'm not a physicist. This is a lay perspective.

>From: Kathleen Marden <Kmarden.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 07:24:29 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: Kathleen Marden on Coast to Coast

>>From: Jason Gammon <boyinthemachine.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:34:12 -0400 (EDT)
>>Subject: Re: Kathleen Marden On Coast To Coast

>>Ms. Marden, with all due respect and no offense intended, but at
>>the end of the show you were discussing "the astral plane",
>>"astral projection", and "raising one's vibrations". You were
>>discussing it because that's what your abductees told you, so
>>therefore it must be right, correct? You have left science
>>behind and have entered New-Age "woo-hoo" land. However, you can
>>make a u-turn and come back. I suggest you do so immediately.

>With reference to statements I made on Coast to Coast, I was
>speaking of information I received from 3 theoretical physicists
>that I had consulted regarding information that several
>experiencers had passed to me independently. I asked if it was
>scientifically possible and discussed the answers I received
>from them. Are you suggesting that these highly respected
>physicists who've worked at Harvard and MIT are out in woo woo

I think you'd find plenty - in fact, a majority - of physicists
who would challenge the reported existence of PSI. The notion of
non-local effects as a cause for ESP and psychic phenomena is
highly contentious. One that experimental evidence for is
tenuous, relying on few early studies in the 1970s and 80s by
Puthoff and Targ, along with several replications and a
statistical analysis by Jessica Utts. Many hardcore skeptics
challenge those findings. Princeton recently closed down the
PEAR group studying such anomalous phenomena. I'm not sure who's
doing this work and publishing any longer. The giggle factor
really interferes with funding and conducting serious research
into the matter.

But, unlike Mr. Gammon, I think it's a serious possibility.

Still, to give Gammon's view fair consideration, let's imagine
an 'Occam's Razor' continuum; one whereby on the far left are
views that conclude nonlocal PSI effects are the cause of UFO
abduction reported claims of 'telepathy', 'mind reading intent',
'mind-scanning'. And even an inter-dimensional intelligence(s)
at work. In the middle of this continuum are the views of Mr.
Gammon, who claim these reports must all be due to misunderstood
technology - perhaps ordered microwave emissions that affect the
brains of subjects - resulting in a misinterpreted experience of
reality by abductees as depicted in "The Matrix." Here, it's not
reality that is manipulated by PSI, but experience that is
manipulated by prosaic EM effects; ostensibly performed by
biological ETI entities, travelling through space from nearby
stars (or, perhaps, evil government agents). And to the far
right on this continuum are the views of hardcore skeptics like
CSICOP, who argue that this is all bunk; a product of mental
illness or sleep paralysis.

Occam's Razor slices this continuum up into even segments, and
along the bottom of this continuum we place a probability curve
of likelihood of cause, as defined by random selection of
physicists who might have responded to some hypothetical survey.
At the top of this curve, we find consensus opinion. Recognize
that this 'consensus opinion' is just a tool. It does NOT mean
that at this peak you've found an answer; it's just an
interesting way to look at the problem.

Fudging a 'consensus opinion' (because I have no real survey
results to offer), let's just guess. The peak would exist
somewhere between the center and right. That is, most physicists
would admit that a technological explanation is possible. In
fact, recent technology improvements show that such an effect as
perceived to be 'mental telepathy' might be possible in the near
term given current advances in brain science. Mr Gammon is right
about that; though even he must admit that such a human
technology would not look or perform anything like what
abductees report. Continuing on along the right to the end of
this continuum, a dipping head would go straight to 'bunk';
skeptics who can not even admit the potential of near-term brain
science advances. Along the left, you'd see a long tail where
some physicists would gradually transition from the
technological explanation to accepting the notion of PSI as a
likely cause for claimed telepathy in abduction reports. That's
where you've placed your bet on the roulette wheel of science,
and I find it a tantalizingly attractive explanation.

Again, that doesn't mean these hypothetical survey results are
right, it just represents a consensus view. Still, we often see
appeals to consensus on such matters as Global Climate Change;
it's a common argument. But from this you can see why Mr. Gammon
would prefer the technological explanation to one of PSI. It
just _seems_ more likely; argument by perceived credulity.

The problem here is that it doesn't really explain the 'high
strangeness' factor of UFO and abduction reports. So we're at an
impasse. We don't really have a mechanism of action for PSI, yet
there is tantalizing evidence for the existence of the effect.
Nor do we have even evidence for the use of PSI via abduction
reports, though it does seem the best explanation given the
'high strangeness' range of reports. But I have to admit, I see
the range of all three perspectives as useful in trying to
understand the matter. From PSI to technology to outright
skepticism. Holding all three perspectives simultaneously helps
me juggle the matter into some seemingly rational framework
(even if that framework is wrong and I don't happen to know why
- lol).

To take a minor-demon's advocate position (because the devil
lives on the far right of our continuum), let's try to place Mr
Gammon's perspective into a technological explanation.

Reports are that Grays 'mindscan' by bending over abductees and
staring into their eyes. Reports are also that Grays use some
kind of dark film (sunglasses like) lens covering their eyes.
Let's imagine a technology placed on the warped spherical
surface of that dark film. Made of carbon-nanotubes at varying
heights, each of those nanotubes represents an antenna capable
of emitting at a specific EM frequency. Some of them emit
microwaves capable of penetrating the eye to cause optical nerve
firings. Emission is of variable intensity and can shift from
below threshold to threshold for firing of a nerve. This beam is
then deflection scanned across the nerve itself, much like an
electron beam from a CRT. With considerable computation, it's
possible to imagine a technology that might elicit the kind of
optical nerve response that represents an experience many
abductees report as 'mind-scanning'. An experience, not a
communications channel.

But it wouldn't give an answer to 'mind reading' and 'full
telepathy'. The problem of reading those brain emissions for a
full bi-directional communications channel is not explained by
this mechanism. Where do we go? SQID receivers embedded
throughout the ship? Or throughout the clothing a so-called gray
might wear? Just how are brain firings read from afar in this
thought experiment without an actual brain implant transmitting
that data back?

Dr. Leir reports that he has removed implants, but from places
like the toe and hand. Not from the brain. He also reports that
at least some of these implants transmit at 8hz, 17mhz, 110mhz,
and 1.2ghz bands.


Is that a technological answer? Could an implant in a toe or
hand cause such experiences as 'telepathy' as reported by
abductees? I have no idea. But it seems unlikely. I would guess
- based upon a lay understanding of the problem - that a brain
implant would be necessary. According to Dr. Leir, he hasn't
seen such a thing. Though it's not impossible.

Still, this is all quite the extrapolation. A skeptic would look
at this convoluted hypothetical explanation and call it all
'bunk.' But we already knew that. And we aren't here because we
believe such proclamations. I just - again - find it useful to
remember; to keep myself grounded from the hypothetical back to
a consensus 'expected reality.'

I think I prefer the PSI and a multidimensional explanation.
It's an easier answer, fitting more of reported claims than
advanced technology appears to resolve. Though I have to admit,
this is a perspective I've been slowly coming to over time. One
I still find difficult to accept. But Vallee's books keep
dragging me there. His work is just too good to ignore. The pure
technological explanation seems a square peg crammed into a
round hole just because it's a close fit. But, on the contrary,
I must also accept that too is argument by credulity. As I
whipsaw back and forth trying to grapple with the extreme
complexity of this issue, I must accept that there are no hard
facts available yet to ground any answer at all.

So, the skeptic stands tall, claiming his spot at the top of the
evidentiary mountain, head held high in triumph, while his eyes
remain firmly closed to reported events of 'high strangeness'.
Reports that we believe should not be ignored. The skeptic is
the majority; Mr Gammon a minority; you and me, each choosing a
spot somewhere on the left at the tail of that continuum joining
a minority of a minority.

Only further data collection and analysis can trump argument by
credulity. So I commend you for that hard work.

One side point: Why does Dr. Leir keep removing those things?
Jeesh. If they're transmitting, why not record a sample data set
and attempt to find the carrier? From there, it might actually
be possible to decode a signal and work back to determine
functionality. Perhaps even transmit back bogus data to whomever
is collecting and thus elicit a response from those elusive
'alien abducting friends' at a time of choosing. Use their game
to advantage, so to speak. Cutting those things out and smashing
them up to examine under electron microscopy, EDX, and
spectroscopy is like trying to understand the functioning of a
silicon chip after a hammer had smashed it to bits. I think he's
going about it wrong there. Though I suppose he may feel he has
an obligation under the Hippocratic Oath to first help his
patients by conducing these surgeries.


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