From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <aj.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:28:02 -0300 Archived: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:46:17 -0400 Subject: Re: New Official Brazilian UFO Files >From: Kentaro Mori <kentaro.mori.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:49:04 -0300 >Subject: Re: New Official Brazilian UFO Files >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <post.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:10:47 -0500 >>Subject: Re: New Official Brazilian UFO Files ><snip> >>Or maybe, so as not to disappoint us who otherwise would be >>willing to hear you out, you could list some UFO sightings you >>regard as puzzling and suggestive. >Answering both you and Tichetti, and to mention a couple of >Brazilian cases, the "Chupa-Chupa" ("Suck-Suck") attacks related >to Operation Saucer on the Amazon during the late 1970s; as well >as the "Official UFO Night" in 1986 are both very puzzling and >suggestive. Wow. "Puzzling and suggestive"? That is an improvement, I give you that. But is it all you've learned from this massive cases? "Puzzling and suggestive" ? Well, had you done what real researchers do, and it is what I did on both events, you would have much more to say. But that`s alright. This is not the reason I respond to this message, after having decided never again to do so to you. And the reason I broke my own decision is below. >They involve hundreds of independent witnesses, including >official authorities, of which the records have been taken at >the time of the events. >>Or are we to presume that you conduct your inquiries with the >>predetermined belief that there are none and that all goes to >>serve that conclusion? >On the contrary. There's a plethora of yet to be discovered >phenomena. And this, I think we all hope, will eventually >include extraterrestrial intelligence, civilizations, et al. And >much, much more, including things we don't even dream about. >>If so, I'd argue that's more ideology, which is easy, than >>actual skepticism, which is hard. >When I write that the more disclosure we see, the more the >skeptical position is favored, I'm stating a fact. Would you >claim that the ETH position is favored instead? Have the dozens >of thousands of released documents strengthened the ETH case? >Of course, when I mean skeptical position, I mean the skeptical >position. >Arguing about ideology is ideology, Jerry, and especially when >you, like Gevaerd and Tichetti, seem to imply I somehow don't >deserve to be heard because I'm allegedly a skeptibunker with a >made up mind or something like that. Even if that were true, >ignoring relevant information I may bring up is just more >ideology and made-up minds. Here is the reason why I broke off my Saturday morning to read one more message from you and to respond to it. Not only because I was mentioned in it (again, Kentaro?), but because you brought up a subject that needs to be addressed. See, the question is _not_ that Ticchetti, Jerry, I and others think that you don't deserve to be heard. No, no. The very question here - that you have to ask yourself deep in the bottom of your soul - is _why_ do you want to be heard? And _why_ do you want so much that your skeptic points of view towards UFOs are heard in a UFO forum filled with UFO researchers? You and others? Why? What fuels your tremendous desire to debunk cases after cases? To criticize people after people? That is the whole point to be addressed. Referring to Rimmer in another message, Jerry very wisely (I couldn`t expect anything else from him - Joe now will say that I am parroting Jerry) brought up what he calls "psychosocial ufology". That is almost what I had in mind. But I would bring up what I call "psychological ufology", when dealing with your very case, Kentaro. And I mean psychological in the pathological sense. Two years ago, after another situation (of many) when you, almost furiously, tried your best to once again criticize me (again, Kentaro?), I have written a long article on people like you to publish and a short version for this List, but I gave up publishing that in the magazine and posting it here. Because it would only attract attention to people like you. So why do so? But what are "people like you"? See, believe me, there is no implied offense or disrespect here. Sorry if you feel otherwise. Well, I have in my entire life of dedication to Ufology (some 36 of my 49 years) met lots of people like you, who enter this field of research mostly to criticize and to debunk rather than to contribute - and yet, they politely pretend they do so with their criticism and debunking. These people seem to hate the UFO subject, to have great disgust for the ones that are dedicated to it and show nothing but contempt to what they achieve. You, almost always respectfully, do just that, Kentaro. Everyone can see. If it is not a sick behavior, at least it is very odd. It is like a vegetarian guy who goes with his meat-eater friends to a grill restaurant and keep saying at the table, while everybody is having their big steaks, how bad it is to eat meat, that it contains lots of bad chemicals, cattle blood issues, nature issues, religious issues, whatever. I forgot how a guy like that is called in English. You are that guy. Kentaro. You sit at the UFO researcher's table to say - in a pretentious clever way, of course - that what we do is all bullshit. Our cases are poor, our skills are less that appropriate and the results we achieve are faulty. That is what you do in this and in other UFO forums. And your behavior tells me more of this sickness when I see that people like you need almost desperately to be heard. Even not being invited to the UFO "tables" (after all, they welcome everybody), you enter almost all UFO forums available just to express your skeptical manifestations. Even in the smallest groups and lists, there is Kentaro putting out his skeptic point of view, like you do in other lists in Brazil and in Portugal. That is odd! Boy, you have been expelled from several lists and in others that you still are - those that are not moderated by your friends - you take beatings all the time. And yet you are there to make your word to be head. This is really something! And you know what is even stranger? It is that, in Brazil, you happily criticize who do good Ufology and yet, in order to be heard, you join people who have in their past or do in the present a lot of danger to Ufology. Why? I won`t give names here, but remember that I now 10 times much better than you do almost everybody that you are associated with now, because once they were in my team. But, in order to criticize me and my magazine, you team up with those characters, as if it really doesn`t matter what you do to get your point done. But who really listen to you? Frankly? I know only a few people, and among them are the ones that I describe above. Most of your articles and posts are critics to something or to someone, and I am your favorite target since you hate me because of the sense of rejection you feel after I turned down your article over 10 years ago (over 10 years ago, Kentaro?). In order to attack me and my magazine and my team, you even go to the levels of intellectual dishonesty - or what you once told me that is "bad journalism", referring to what I do. Yes, Kentaro, meditate on some of your articles about me or my magazine and you will see what many other people see: a person who shows very clearly his hate by someone by practicing intellectually dishonest articles. I don't need to list them. You know. Your illness is in a so advanced phase that you even bother to have some of those articles in English in your website, as if I was that important to figure in your international arena. Well, I guess I am. To you! But let`s remember that the issue here is not that you hate me, but that people like you, as I wrote above, show nothing but disgust by the UFO subject, great dislike for the ones that are dedicated to it and real contempt to what they achieve. This is the issue. But, okay, Kentaro, certainly you are entitled to feel so, to say so and to do so. This is democracy! The question is: _why_ you so desperately do that in UFO forums, where obviously everybody loves what you hate, where people want to construct something that they call Ufology, that you disapprove so much - even pretending you don`t? Do you see UFO researchers forcing their ways to make their word heard in skeptic forums? I don`t! You have never done one single real investigation of any UFO case at all. None! Varginha? No, no, what you know about it is what you read. Operation Saucer? No, no, again, you only know what you read. Roswell? Damn, no again! And on and on. Trindade may be - "may be" if we are generous to you by considering phone investigations as legitimate - the only case you really got involved with. And why did you do so? You did it with the sole purpose of destroying the case, as recklessly you tried with Operation Saucer and got out of that experience very damaged. You are the kind of researcher that Bruce Maccabee just recently defined as an "ufonet" in an brilliant interview given to Thiago Ticchetti (yeah, productive Ufology versus unproductive skepticism). You`ve done nothing but "investigations" over the web. Why bothering spending decades and hundreds of trips to investigate cases, locating witnesses, taping and transcribing interviews, analyzing samples, measuring fields, be eaten by mosquitos, endure long trips in unpaved roads etc. Why? Just sit down at your chair, behind your computer and blast it all in the UFO forums! That seems to be your philosophy of life. I could go on and on and on to point out where you go wrong, Kentaro. But this is not my purpose here. My purpose here is to bring up the psychological aspects of someone's skepticism and debunking - not only you, but anyone who has similar behavior, here in this List and in others lists and forums. And I emphasize again that what is being discussed here is why "these kind of people" - again, no offense - decides to be a skeptic and a debunker of the UFO Phenomena precisely in UFO forums. But you are a little different from the average of "that kind of people", I give you that, too. Because you are the smart, polite and by far the most tenacious of all of the people in that category that I`ve met. But is it this a good thing or a bad thing? Does it reveal more of the disease that I believe you have, by seeing you fight so much the UFO Phenomena and the UFO researchers in their own arena? I believe yes! The more resistant to the ones who don't like your skepticism and the more persistent you are in keeping doing so, the bigger the problem. Well, this is it. Again, I don't mean to offend you, despite the fact that I have been continuously offended by you in your websites, where - amazingly - there is even a tag named A. J. Gevaerd, where you love to criticize me. That`s, however, is your arena. And that shows how important I am in your life, Kentaro. But see, buy, not even my ex-wife criticizes me so much as you do! So, think about it. Is this normal? Well, as a honest person, I must say, however, that some of your criticism helped me to straight a few paths. So, thanks! But I am also a very sincere and direct person, enough to say that most of your criticism is only motivated by disgust and by rage, because of the sense of rejection you suffer since I refused to publish your article. And, as Thiago much appropriately pointed out in a previous message, you seem to hate the rest of the Ufology because of that. See, to me, there are definitely serious psychological issues in your behavior towards the Ufology in general, in UFO forums in particular and, more specifically, towards me. I am your karma? A. J. Gevaerd PS. Just recently I was asked to assist a group of Psychology post-graduations students from University of S=E3o Paulo about Ufology They wanted to psychologically measure its acceptance and rejection by society. Well, I offered all help I can give and pointed out that a chapter of their study could be UFO skepticism and debunking, and gave your example in the way I described above. They will look for you. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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