From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <aj.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:55:29 -0300 Archived: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 06:51:27 -0400 Subject: Re: New Official Brazilian UFO Files >From: Kentaro Mori <kentaro.mori.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 14:57:53 -0300 >Subject: Re: New Official Brazilian UFO Files >>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <aj.nul> >>To: <post.nul> >>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 10:56:45 -0300 >>Subject: New Official Brazilian UFO Files ><snip> >>In Brazil, differently that what happened in France and England, >>for example, where the disclosure has been thanks to an >>administrative decision, the opening of files is a result of >>movement conducted by a number of Brazilian UFO researchers in >>behalf of the entire Brazilian UFO Community. >I think our fellows abroad, especially in the UK, would strongly >disagree with that. You simply don't get it and you will never do. Well, what could one expect from someone who says that Roswell, Varginha, Operation Saucer - all fully documented cases - are either complete frauds= or misinterpretations? Not to say many other major UFO cases that you debunk= as if you have been at least close to where they happened and at least talked to who experienced them, some very well investigated by respected members of this List. How can you say, for instance, that what worldwidely respected researchers= such as Stanton Friedman and Bruce Maccabee - which I use as examples because they recently gave interviews to us - investigated simply don't count? Because it is what you do when you say that either because Roswell has clear explanations, according to the USAF, as you just recently told in= a TV show here? And Trindade Island is just fake, despite the investigations= and interviews made by some many reliable researchers? How? The same goes for Operations Saucers, which you so despicably tried to dismiss using a shameful attitude by someone who happens to dislike its father to the point to decide to destroy its name and, by consequence, OS itself. How? What have you gained from that? Get real. In the first place, Kentaro Mori, why you so eagerly try to reduce= everything I post here, even knowing that you are not being straight? Do you= think that other people in this List will see me as a liar because you said= so, a person who takes all opportunity you have to say that UFOs are nonsense, sometimes acting in an abusive way in your website, like you did= to attack me many time? Grow up, Kentaro Mori. If you have such repulsion for UFO investigations and= UFO researchers, like you have just recently admitted, why spend your time= in this field? But Ok, since you are, be honest and respect those who do what you don't and should. Instead of doing something for the benefit of the= Brazilian Ufology, you only try as hard as you can to underestimate our achievements and our result, and this sounds sick for years. Hate me? Forget= me! Don't like what I do? Don't care about it. I don't have to reply to you, but because for years everybody in this List= have seen clearly that all you do is to attempt to diminish what I post, I= will do so. I have an obligation to correct your simplistic, distorted and= malicious statements, given here with the sole purpose of downplaying the importance of what we have been doing here in the Brazilian UFO Community -= of which you are not part of and will never be accepted as part of because= of your destructive behavior along the years. So, in respect of those here who know me for my 30 and so years of honest dedication to the reality of Ufology, I again will fix your distortions and= reckless affirmations. >It both downplays the role UFO researchers had in those >countries, and exaggerates the one they had here in Brazil. You again distort what I say. I never did say that there where no efforts made by UK and French researchers to get the truth out. I know most and I am good friend of most UK and French researchers (the few left in French, I am afraid), I have been there speaking in their conferences many times since late and good Graham Birdsall and know perfectly well what they try to accomplish there - much more than you, I have to tell you. And it is precisely because of that that, even though the efforts by UK and French researchers, the releasing of papers in those countries were administrative decisions. I.e.: someone there said: "why will we keep getting bothered by people asking this stuff. Just let it go." >For instance, as it has never been made quite clear by the >committee you represent, but was mentioned by the relevant >authority in an interview, Brigadier Jose Carlos Pereira, most >of the released Air Force files had been collected by his own >personal initiative and interest in UFOs and were being prepared >to be released before the campaign by local Ufologists was >promoted. Calls for disclosure were, of course, being made long >before it, but fact is that the Brigadier has told he was >collecting those files for disclosure before your campaign >started. Perhaps it hasn't been "quite clear" for you, Kentaro Mori. It is your problem, take care of it. Because for the great majority of the Brazilian UFO Community it has (and for people in others countries where I have been presenting the same info). Perhaps you should read more the Brazilian UFO Magazine, that I edit and that you attack so much for your personal problems - since I have refused to publish a paper from you 10 years ago and you never forgot it - and you would see that we have published nearly 50 articles (3 new ones in October) about what you don't see "quite clear". As for the Brigadier Jose Carlos Pereira, just do not forget that you didn't even ever got close to him to know that that man says or thinks, and contrary to you, he has been my friend since I interview him for long 4-5 hours in 2008, and that after that he attended both as audience and then, under my invitation, as speaker in several congresses that I and my colleagues put together - of what you never appeared to check out with your own eyes what is really going on. So, Kentaro Mori, you know nothing about the Brigadier's thinking and how the process took place. Did you at least know that it was me who convinced the Brigadier to give that wonderful, complete statement at Leslie Kean latest book? Guess not. >The actual Brazilian disclosure must be seen both in the >International context - as authorities, including the UK, want >to wash their hands about the subject - and in the Domestic >one, as the UFO Disclosure Campaign got its major boost thanks >to the Fantastico TV show which in turn also promoted it in >context of the then much publicized problem of the actual >destruction of official documents related to the military >dictatorship era in Brazil. Around here, as our fellows abroad >must know, Freedom of Information relates mainly to the >disclosure of documents related to crimes committed by the >military government during the three decades we lived under a >strong-armed dictatorship. Again, you seem to forget too easily things that do not support your plan of downscaling other people's achievement. Fantastico program, when you were still a kid, was the program that first I called and gave the entire Operation Saucer material and to whom I introduced Uyrang=EA Hollanda, who gave them an interview after he had given to me that long and detailed one. It was in 1997 and since then Fantastico has been calling us regularly at Brazilian UFO Magazine to seek for new information to air. It was in January 2005, in the heat of our campaign and much before the repercussion of incident with the official documents you describe, that I got a call from the Brazilian Air Force spokesman, on behalf of its very commander, inviting the committee I represent to meet with the military in Brasilia. And it was in that January 2005, again, much before the problems with the official documents you describe, that I contacted Fantastico again to invite to come with us to Brasilia, which happened a few months after that. You seem not to know what the entire Brazilian UFO Community knows. Amazing. >This is not to downplay the part the campaign you leaded didn't >play a role in the actual UFO disclosure. It would be unfair to >say it didn't play a very significant role. But claiming all the >credit for it, I think, and even to the point of downplaying >those abroad, is not very appropriated. Again, more distortions. Yes, hear it out loud: the release of the documents in Brazil happened thanks to the campaign UFOs: Freedom on Information Now, believe it or not. Who cares? The fact, Kentaro Mori, is that the first official meeting in history between Brazilian Air Force and UFO researchers to discuss the disclosure process happened in May 20, after that call I refer above, and being accompanied by a Fantastico team, happened only because we started that campaign. It would never happen without it. Never. Or would you and your fellow debunkers do something to get those results we achieved. Well, we did. And we did a lot. So don't even try to discredit or inferiorize our achievements. >The Military Inquiry into the Varginha Case, for instance, is >being claimed as being released due to your campaign's pressure. >But in fact the files had been publicly available for almost a >decade, and the people who actually copied and publicized them >were simply journalists from a weekly magazine who requested >them at the proper archive. The files were not secret, they were >simply not properly sought after by anyone. This, I think, >illustrates more accurately how things happen. Wrong again. And twice. First, the documents you refer to have never been made public before, as you believe. Never. The Army persistently refused to give the Military Inquiry about the Varginha Case even when it was told so by some congressmen. Kentaro Mori, you should hate less and read more the Brazilian UFO Magazine, then you would know that it was us, the committee I represent, which I actually founded in 1996, that instructed Isto=E9 magazine in Brazil with all the facts it needed to know do with us the necessary pressure to make the Military Inquiry papers surface. And it only did because of our actions directly with the Directory Board of the Brazilian National Congress, through a few congressmen. The files were secret, yes, and you only would now of its content because of our work. So, enjoy and don't try to diminish it. >As much as UFO enthusiasts like to cry about a cover-up - which >does occur, obviously, as UFOs are related to National Security >even if none of them were alien spaceships -, the simple fact a >lot of documents are not publicly available because they have >simply not been properly requested reveals a more nuanced view >of reality. And even the files that have been made widely and >now easily available electronically lack a proper evaluation and >investigation. "Even if none of them were alien spaceships"? But you actually don't believe it, do you? So, why bother? Roswell UFO crash a mixture of fraud and misinterpretations, so you said recently in a TV show. Varginha creatures are of demonic nature, so you said to a not-so-recent magazine. Operation Saucers UFOs, disks- shaped objects and even "devices" saw and filmed were all frauds committed by a military son, and the rest of the military reports are just inaccurate, impossible to be take serious, so you said recently too. Cool. >The same thing happened, as another example, in the Trindade >case, where documents have been available for half a century but >no one bothered to properly look or even ask for them until our >recent efforts - and by "our efforts" I mean all researchers >dedicated to reviewing this case, both at home and abroad. What documents you refer to? To the newspaper clippings? Magazine clippings? Old files from Navy released decades ago because they have nothing useful or revealing? Well they were, indeed. But what kind of "efforts" are those you claim? Now let me tell you what is really going on, and you should know it before speaking this kind of thing. We, the Brazilian Committee of UFO Researchers are pressuring as hard as possible the Army and the Navy to come forward with the documents they are refusing to disclose. Congressman Chico Pinheiro, a leading politician in Brazil, totally supporting our campaign, just recently issued a National Congress administrative order demanding that the Defense minister order the Army and the Navy commanders to surrender the papers - and some of them are the papers that military is denying to give about Trindade, Varginha and more recent cases. Haven't you read my magazine lately? You should! Despite a few natural obstacles here and there, you will see some of these papers surface soon - like the others we achieved, yes, in our campaign, with real efforts - and you will benefit from them as they are made available thanks to the campaign you say it isn't what we and all the Brazilian UFO Community know it is. >>This is serious and real Ufology, much beyond unproductive >>skepticism. >The Brazilian Air Force states it is completing the full >disclosure of *all* of its UFO files, and that further files >will be directed to the National Archives as it's allegedly not >in their duty to investigate the subject. The released files >reveal how even the high echelons of the military would fall for >crude hoaxes (including a Minister falling for the hoax of the >"Uranus Project"), and that mostly all of the research efforts >were due to the personal interest by some key figures, so much >so that as soon as they left their posts, the projects were >terminated. And so much so that even the files and evidence >produced by these projects were literally left to rot. Are you so naive to believe in what you wrote above and what you've been told by our military? Are you? That "further files will be directed to the National Archives as it's allegedly not in their duty (Brazilian Air Force) to investigate the subject"? Did you really swallow that, Kentaro Mori? I am amazed. Well, for your information - again - we ate the Brazilian Committee of UFO Researchers, that you consider to be doing such a poor job, are using the proper channels to pressure the Brazilian Air Force about it, because it is simply unthinkable that cases involving, for example, commercial airlines pursued by UFOs with 200 people on board wouldn't be subject to a serious investigations, especially for its flight security aspects, and only be smoothly sent to the National Archives. Oh, boy! Can't you see that it is not only unthinkable but also an absurd that the Aviation Authority in Brazil would simply take the report and then say to the commander of that jetliner, "ok, sir, thank you for your cooperation and have a nice day", and then send the report to the National Archives. Wake up, Kentaro Mori! >The best these files show is that the military can also include >people, in all echelons, who believe in the ETH. But they lack >as much evidence to prove that hypothesis as we civilians. Or at >least that's what the files show. Even the Brigadier, I think >the most relevant person in the Brazilian UFO Disclosure (and >again, due to his personal interest) was very clear about that. Okay, but don't forget, again, that the Brigadier was pretty quiet in pajamas in its sofa when was asked to me to give me an interview that changed everything. Again. Like Uyrang=EA Hollanda changed everything. And when invited by me, he said "sure, let's do it", and received me for 4-5 hours, in those I made the right questions to let hem comfortable to express things like "I believe that all the secrets must be opened. We have tons of tem". So did several other military I interviewed - how many did you? Or did Brigadier say something like that and worse without being properly interviewed? And who did it, Kentaro Mori? And what happened after that interview? >Knowing all this is getting closer to evaluating the real >situation, and as such is indeed productive Ufology. But I would >say that the more disclosure we see, the more the skeptical >position is favored. As I said before here: there are those who are so pessimistic and live their lives in such a way that they prefer to see that glass half empty, and there are those who not only prefer otherwise, it is, to see it half full but also do whatever they can to fill the glass up. I hope I don't have to come back to the List to reply to your distortions. I have much more to do and so do you, I guess. A. J. Gevaerd Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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