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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2011 > Sep > Sep 17

Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:20:27 -0300
Archived: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 14:15:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>From: Gregory Boone <evolbaby.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>From: Steve Sawyer <stevesaw.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 04:44:47 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: post.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:03:07 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>>>From: Steve Sawyer <stevesaw.nul>
>>>>To: <post.nul>
>>>>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:17:22 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs


>>>>I accept your premise of unusual or "dangerous" military aircraft
>>>>maneuvers over either rural or particularly urban areas as being
>>>>rather unlikely in most cases, but see my UpDates post from
>>>>earlier today about a couple kinds of exceptions, which still go
>>>>on today, and might partially explain what the rural residents of
>>>>the Hudson Valley, Adirondack, and Catskill mountain areas in the
>>>>northeast may have been observing lately, which might be either
>>>>special ops training maneuvers or continuity of government and
>>>>operations resupply and training/practice exercises that are
>>>>usually quite discreet and denied by local, state, and federal
>>>>authorities, including the FAA when required to.

>>>Why? To publicize them? Why not do this out in the American
>>>southwest instead of a densely populated area fraught with aerial
>>>traffic? ATC has a difficult enough time keeping traffic
>>>separated in the Terminal Radar Control areas of New York as it
>>>is. Particularly at night.

>>>I doubt the FAA is going say-yeah go ahead, we don't really care
>>>if you kill a couple of hundred people on approach or departure
>>>form or to Newark, JFK, LeGuardia or Teterboro airports.

>>>Greg has private pilots willing to piss away their hard earned
>>>and very expensive licences just to play around illegally at
>>>night. Back in the 80s a licence would have cost about $3k to
>>>obtain in 1980's $$.

>>>I'm sorry folks I'm just too steeped in regs to buy the willy-
>>>nilly theory.

>>>A couple of years ago a F-16 harassed a commercial pilot flying a
>>>Pilatus-P-12 over New Mexico I believe. The jock continuously
>>>approached the rear and set of the P-12's TCAS. The P-12 was
>>>flying through an MOA during the hours posted when the MOA was
>>>not operational. The FAA made a complaint to the USAF and that
>>>pilot no longer flies for the USAF.

>>>>I only note these possibilities as just that, and have no further
>>>>info or insight into the aerial activities apparently being seen
>>>>by some people in the area Greg Boone and Carol Maltby have
>>>>mentioned occurring in the area concerned. Frankly, and all
>>>>things considered, including my own past investigation of the
>>>>similar series of incidents in northern California in the early
>>>>1990's, it seems my speculation may explain some of the aspects
>>>>of these more recent aerial activities in the northeast area, and
>>>>the FAA or other governmental authorities not commenting or
>>>>investigating it, as it very well might be covert and classified
>>>>under national security provisions of law and policy, thus
>>>>denied. Similar aerial and ground activities have occurred over
>>>>the past 30 years or more in Texas, southern and northern
>>>>California, and several other states--this may also help explain
>>>>the rural "black helicopter" phenomenon, at least in part, or
>>>>some cattle mutilations or reported UFO night time light
>>>>phenomena related in time and place, and could be an intentional
>>>>or inadvertent form of misdirection of sorts. These latter
>>>>suppositions are entirely speculative, of course. Maybe...

>>>The military often paint their night-ops helicopters black. Makes
>>>them harder to see so the enemy can't shoot them down. They
>>>display low illumination pastel nav lights that other choppers
>>>can formate on but can't be seen at any distance.

>>Don, it's not a "willy-nilly" theory. If Carol and many others
>>who actually live in the general area say that unusual night
>>flight activity is going on, and are reporting it, then it seems
>>something is really going on, doesn't it? As to exactly what,
>>and to what degree, I don't know, but I think it would be wrong
>>to simply dismiss it due to normal FAA and TRACON regs that
>>might apply. These kinds of things _do_ happen, in different
>>regions, periodically and repeatedly.

>>My impression, based on what's been noted so far, is that the
>>areas concerned where night aerial actiivity has occurred are in
>>fact _not_ heavily populated, but somewhat rural. So your
>>comment about why "publicize" and why not "do this out in the
>>American southwest instead of a densely populated area fraught
>>with aerial traffic," if you read what I wrote, about there
>>being over 100 classified domestic continuity of operations
>>communications bunkers, underground shelters, and associated
>>govenment infrastructure and military emergency flight aircraft
>>of various kinds for use in a national emergency, and which have
>>to train, resupply, upgrade, and staff, and also conduct
>>realistic exercises periodically in the areas concerned, would
>>moot your suppositions. Sometimes these exercises are not
>>announced or "publicized" afterward since they are secret, and
>>sometimes involve members of the executive branch, once or twice
>>a year, being flown to various emergency relocation arc
>>locations as part of these exercises. None of this is imaginary.


>>The military-corporate-national security industrial complex has
>>become vast and deeply imbedded into our country since then,
>>despite Eisenhower's prescient warning back in the late 1950's,
>>and I think has even become a threat to representative
>>government and democracy. $6. 6 _trillion_ dollars since 9/11
>>buys a lit of toys and power for those profiting and pulling
>>strings from behind the scenes.

>Right on Steve.

>For some reason Ledger latched onto night sightings

Of course I did. That's what we were discussing, Hercs tearing
around at low level in populated areas at night when they
weren't landing or taking off. Even you may have noticed that
when taking off or landing that airplanes tend to be low and get
higher or high and get lower. Don't waste time with you low Herc
over a shopping center when it could very well be landing or
taking off.

>when I
>mentioned that several of the unusual maneuvers were during the
>day in front of many people. One was a near collision, a
>strafing with a metro north train. The chopper came so close I
>could tell you the color of the eyes of the pilot.

A strafing? Are you serious. And what color was his eyes? This
gets more bizarre as you go along.

>No insignia,
>black chopper. Saw similar black choppers around during the day
>on several occasions. My father teased me once until while we
>were doing some work on one of the new houses he'd built a black
>chopper showed up and hovered right over us, shot a spotlight at
>us. Probably a hundred people were around the neighborhood that
>day in the suburbs near a busy main intersection at that. So
>these events don't happen at night they happened during the day
>and people couldn't get answers other than hostile remarks from
>the authorities.

>Your assessment is spot on Steve. Back in those days I'm
>referring too, military and their associated contractors were an
>arrogant, show off bunch and bigoted and racist and sexist to
>boot. When I saw my UFO sightings over the Hudson Valley I
>immediately chalked it up to being the guys showing off new
>aircraft. Or drug smugglers as we later saw with Iran Contra.
>Remember, one of the biggest cocaine processing plants was found
>smack dab in Green County which is just north of Dutchess
>County. So we all felt and knew what was going on back then but
>had no one to turn to. Add to that the rise of right wing
>survivalist combat civilian and corporate camps popping up
>around the region and it was some risky stuff.

>I've even got those giant C5 aircraft flying low over shopping
>centers in broad daylight on video. For years officials said the
>big triangle craft were C5s which was horsehash because you
>can't mistake one of them as they make a screaming loud ass
>noise and you can see them.

>It was others, including officials, technicians, scientists, and
>military that yelled at me and told me that some of the UFOs I
>and others saw in the valley were

>by no means anything the U.S. had in its arsenal because many of
>the same officials and scientists and military designed and
>built our top secret aircraft which they even admitted flew over
>the area. Heck, there were secret bases for training all up and
>down the region.

>So as for military, private, and black budget craft flying
>around that's a fact not speculation. Because it doesn't fit
>into the "Ledger Logic" doesn't mean it's not true.

No one disputes that military, private and black budget (that
some new type?) are flying around.That's what aircraft do. Just
stick with the original arguments will you. You are all over the
map now.

Don Ledger

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