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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2011 > Sep > Sep 16

Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

From: Steve Sawyer <stevesaw.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 04:44:47 -0700
Archived: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:43:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:03:07 -0300
>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>From: Steve Sawyer <stevesaw.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:17:22 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

<snip>

>>I accept your premise of unusual or "dangerous" military aircraft
>>maneuvers over either rural or particularly urban areas as being
>>rather unlikely in most cases, but see my UpDates post from
>>earlier today about a couple kinds of exceptions, which still go
>>on today, and might partially explain what the rural residents of
>>the Hudson Valley, Adirondack, and Catskill mountain areas in the
>>northeast may have been observing lately, which might be either
>>special ops training maneuvers or continuity of government and
>>operations resupply and training/practice exercises that are
>>usually quite discreet and denied by local, state, and federal
>>authorities, including the FAA when required to.

>Why? To publicize them? Why not do this out in the American
>southwest instead of a densely populated area fraught with aerial
>traffic? ATC has a difficult enough time keeping traffic
>separated in the Terminal Radar Control areas of New York as it
>is. Particularly at night.

>I doubt the FAA is going say-yeah go ahead, we don't really care
>if you kill a couple of hundred people on approach or departure
>form or to Newark, JFK, LeGuardia or Teterboro airports.

>Greg has private pilots willing to piss away their hard earned
>and very expensive licences just to play around illegally at
>night. Back in the 80s a licence would have cost about $3k to
>obtain in 1980's $$.

>I'm sorry folks I'm just too steeped in regs to buy the willy-
>nilly theory.

>A couple of years ago a F-16 harassed a commercial pilot flying a
>Pilatus-P-12 over New Mexico I believe. The jock continuously
>approached the rear and set of the P-12's TCAS. The P-12 was
>flying through an MOA during the hours posted when the MOA was
>not operational. The FAA made a complaint to the USAF and that
>pilot no longer flies for the USAF.

>>I only note these possibilities as just that, and have no further
>>info or insight into the aerial activities apparently being seen
>>by some people in the area Greg Boone and Carol Maltby have
>>mentioned occurring in the area concerned. Frankly, and all
>>things considered, including my own past investigation of the
>>similar series of incidents in northern California in the early
>>1990's, it seems my speculation may explain some of the aspects
>>of these more recent aerial activities in the northeast area, and
>>the FAA or other governmental authorities not commenting or
>>investigating it, as it very well might be covert and classified
>>under national security provisions of law and policy, thus
>>denied. Similar aerial and ground activities have occurred over
>>the past 30 years or more in Texas, southern and northern
>>California, and several other states--this may also help explain
>>the rural "black helicopter" phenomenon, at least in part, or
>>some cattle mutilations or reported UFO night time light
>>phenomena related in time and place, and could be an intentional
>>or inadvertent form of misdirection of sorts. These latter
>>suppositions are entirely speculative, of course. Maybe...

>The military often paint their night-ops helicopters black. Makes
>them harder to see so the enemy can't shoot them down. They
>display low illumination pastel nav lights that other choppers
>can formate on but can't be seen at any distance.


Don, it's not a "willy-nilly" theory. If Carol and many others
who actually live in the general area say that unusual night
flight activity is going on, and are reporting it, then it seems
something is really going on, doesn't it? As to exactly what,
and to what degree, I don't know, but I think it would be wrong
to simply dismiss it due to normal FAA and TRACON regs that
might apply. These kinds of things _do_ happen, in different
regions, periodically and repeatedly.

My impression, based on what's been noted so far, is that the
areas concerned where night aerial actiivity has occurred are in
fact _not_ heavily populated, but somewhat rural. So your
comment about why "publicize" and why not "do this out in the
American southwest instead of a densely populated area fraught
with aerial traffic," if you read what I wrote, about there
being over 100 classified domestic continuity of operations
communications bunkers, underground shelters, and associated
govenment infrastructure and military emergency flight aircraft
of various kinds for use in a national emergency, and which have
to train, resupply, upgrade, and staff, and also conduct
realistic exercises periodically in the areas concerned, would
moot your suppositions. Sometimes these exercises are not
announced or "publicized" afterward since they are secret, and
sometimes involve members of the executive branch, once or twice
a year, being flown to various emergency relocation arc
locations as part of these exercises. None of this is imaginary.

An example of that is how former VP Cheney was flown to Mt.
Weather shortly after the 9/11 attacks, which was nearly always
referred to in the press as an "undisclosed location."

Since 9/11, under the Bush administration, I would not be at all
surprised to find that the various OPLANS succeeding what was
called Operation Garden Plot required the kind of extensive
expansion and upgrade of the dozens upon dozens of emergency
underground facilities spread all over the country, initially
taken by the Reagan administration in the mid to late1980's.
Since most of these locations are rural, and rather discreet, a
certain amount of unusual night flight military activity would
not be either subject to or affected by the normal rules and
regulations of either the FAA or individual ATC's, etc. Now, why
a C-130 would be flying up some valley "chasing" a drone baffles
me also, if true. But I'm not talking about private pilots doing
aerial acrobatics or the rare, martinet F-16 pilot hassling a
private plane outside of MOA operating hours.

What I'm referring to is the kind of authorized, necessary night
flight activity in support of national security matters, such as
FEMA supports, and other agencies, that relate to planning for,
outfitting, and exercises, among various other activities, to be
better able to deal with terrorist attack, or more importantly
and for decades now, the possibility and consequences of a
nuclear first strike.You don't have to believe it, or you may be
"too steeped in regs to buy the willy-nilly theory," but when
the government that makes the regs decides to violate them for
classified purposes, like outlined here, do you really think
they care what you or I think is appropriate, under the
circumstances potentially involved, or that they are answerable
to anyone other than themselves? That may seem cynical, but
increasingly I believe it's accurate, given recent history.

I refer you to the new book, "Top Secret America," by Washington
Post national security reporters Dana Priest and William Arkin,
to begin to get some idea of the scale and breadth of our
national security surveillance state since 9/11.

The military-corporate-national security industrial complex has
become vast and deeply imbedded into our country since then,
despite Eisenhower's prescient warning back in the late 1950's,
and I think has even become a threat to representative
government and democracy. $6. 6 _trillion_ dollars since 9/11
buys a lit of toys and power for those profiting and pulling
strings from behind the scenes.




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