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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2011 > Sep > Sep 15

Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:03:07 -0300
Archived: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs


>From: Steve Sawyer <stevesaw.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:17:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:58:44 -0300
>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>From: Carol Maltby <carolmaltby.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:59:43 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: post.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 13:12:59 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>>>From: Gregory Boone <evolbaby.nul>
>>>>To: post.nul
>>>>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 07:06:03 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs

>>>The densest commercial traffic corridors and airspace in the
>>>world is the New York TRACON (that might not be the case in a
>>>few years when Bejing exceeds that) and that air space is
>>>jealously guarded. Google that up on Wiki. Cripes there are AF
>>>bases all over the map in that area but that doesn't mean they
>>>train there other than to take off and land. They don't do
>>>exercises out in reeds with impunity; period.
>
>>>Me and thousands like me have passed through that airspace below
>>>the floor of the TRACON (2,500 to 3,000 feet ASL) threading
>>>through what's left between biz-jet ports and regional carrier
>>>and commuter fields, etc.never mind the rising and falling
>>>terrain. Unrecorded C-130s tearing around willy-nilly chasing
>>>Top Secret Drones through highly populated areas and commercial
>>>airspace is absurd and the province of the fringe believer.
>>Don, could you clarify your last comments for me please?

>>I live under a flight path for Stewart, about 5 miles southeast
>>of West Shokan, one of the towns featured in the story. If you
>>open up your Google Maps to New York State and get a section
>>framed by Interstate 88 and Interstate 87 (NY Thruway), with the
>>Ashokan Reservoir in the lower right corner, you'll see the
>>small towns/hamlets like West Shokan, Chichester and Stamford
>>are dotted throughout the vast, mountainous state forest lands
>>of the Catskill Mountains. Populated, it ain't (let alone highly
>>populated), and our regular traffic heading to Stewart is
>>limited to a handful of flights.

>>Are you invalidating the experiences of the people quoted, and
>>saying they didn't see or hear what they saw and heard? While I
>>can't personally verify that they were C-130s, a police officer
>>seems to have corroborated Blake Killen's statement that that's
>>one of the aircraft.

>Hi Carol,

>I'm invalidating their interpretation that they are seeing air
>force maneuvers in other than MOAs or a public air show. If a
>police officer witnessed a dangerous act then he should have
>reported it. Unless recently the US was placed under Marshall
>Law then FAA rules (Federal Air Regulations-FARs) apply in
>civilian airspace. That's all I'm saying.

>Hi, Don

>I think you must have meant Martial Law. Perhaps you were
>thinking about Gen. George Marshall,

<snip>

Naw, I just spelled it wrong. it.

>I accept your premise of unusual or "dangerous" military aircraft
>maneuvers over either rural or particularly urban areas as being
>rather unlikely in most cases, but see my UpDates post from
>earlier today about a couple kinds of exceptions, which still go
>on today, and might partially explain what the rural residents of
>the Hudson Valley, Adirondack, and Catskill mountain areas in the
>northeast may have been observing lately, which might be either
>special ops training maneuvers or continuity of government and
>operations resupply and training/practice exercises that are
>usually quite discreet and denied by local, state, and federal
>authorities, including the FAA when required to.

Why? To publicize them? Why not do this out in the American
southwest instead of a densely populated area fraught with aerial
traffic? ATC has a difficult enough time keeping traffic
separated in the Terminal Radar Control areas of New York as it
is. Particularly at night.

I doubt the FAA is going say-yeah go ahead, we don't really care
if you kill a couple of hundred people on approach or departure
form or to Newark, JFK, LeGuardia or Teterboro airports.

Greg has private pilots willing to piss away their hard earned
and very expensive licences just to play around illegally at
night. Back in the 80s a licence would have cost about $3k to
obtain in 1980's $$.

I'm sorry folks I'm just too steeped in regs to buy the willy-
nilly theory.

A couple of years ago a F-16 harassed a commercial pilot flying a
Pilatus-P-12 over New Mexico I believe. The jock continuously
approached the rear and set of the P-12's TCAS. The P-12 was
flying through an MOA during the hours posted when the MOA was
not operational. The FAA made a complaint to the USAF and that
pilot no longer flies for the USAF.


>I only note these possibilities as just that, and have no further
>info or insight into the aerial activities apparently being seen
>by some people in the area Greg Boone and Carol Maltby have
>mentioned occurring in the area concerned. Frankly, and all
>things considered, including my own past investigation of the
>similar series of incidents in northern California in the early
>1990's, it seems my speculation may explain some of the aspects
>of these more recent aerial activities in the northeast area, and
>the FAA or other governmental authorities not commenting or
>investigating it, as it very well might be covert and classified
>under national security provisions of law and policy, thus
>denied. Similar aerial and ground activities have occurred over
>the past 30 years or more in Texas, southern and northern
>California, and several other states--this may also help explain
>the rural "black helicopter" phenomenon, at least in part, or
>some cattle mutilations or reported UFO night time light
>phenomena related in time and place, and could be an intentional
>or inadvertent form of misdirection of sorts. These latter
>suppositions are entirely speculative, of course. Maybe...

The military often paint their night-ops helicopters black. Makes
them harder to see so the enemy can't shoot them down. They
display low illumination pastel nav lights that other choppers
can formate on but can't be seen at any distance.


Don Ledger



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