From: Steve Sawyer <stevesaw.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:46:40 -0700 Archived: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:02:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs >From: Carol Maltby <carolmaltby.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:59:43 -0400 >Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: post.nul >>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 13:12:59 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs >>>From: Gregory Boone <evolbaby.nul> >>>To: post.nul >>>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 07:06:03 -0400 (EDT) >>>Subject: Re: Hudson Valley UFOs <snip> >>The densest commercial traffic corridors and airspace in the >>world is the New York TRACON (that might not be the case in a >>few years when Bejing exceeds that) and that air space is >>jealously guarded. Google that up on Wiki. Cripes there are AF >>bases all over the map in that area but that doesn't mean they >>train there other than to take off and land. They don't do >>exercises out in reeds with impunity; period. >>Me and thousands like me have passed through that airspace below >>the floor of the TRACON (2,500 to 3,000 feet ASL) threading >>through what's left between biz-jet ports and regional carrier >>and commuter fields, etc.never mind the rising and falling >>terrain. Unrecorded C-130s tearing around willy-nilly chasing >>Top Secret Drones through highly populated areas and commercial >>airspace is absurd and the province of the fringe believer. >Don, could you clarify your last comments for me please? >I live under a flight path for Stewart, about 5 miles southeast >of West Shokan, one of the towns featured in the story. If you >open up your Google Maps to New York State and get a section >framed by Interstate 88 and Interstate 87 (NY Thruway), with the >Ashokan Reservoir in the lower right corner, you'll see the >small towns/hamlets like West Shokan, Chichester and Stamford >are dotted throughout the vast, mountainous state forest lands >of the Catskill Mountains. Populated, it ain't (let alone highly >populated), and our regular traffic heading to Stewart is >limited to a handful of flights. >Are you invalidating the experiences of the people quoted, and >saying they didn't see or hear what they saw and heard? While I >can't personally verify that they were C-130s, a police officer >seems to have corroborated Blake Killen's statement that that's >one of the aircraft. Hi, Listerions, I've read the original message by Greg, and the subsequent follow-ups, and thought I might share a somewhat relevant series of events that transpired in the early 1990's in my neck of the woods, up near Oakville in Napa county, or about 40 to 50 miles northeast of the San Francisco Bay Area, and that might illuminate a little of what might be going on in the Hudson Valley in terms of mysterious aircraft flights of a provocative nature in that area of late. Back when I first became involved in UFO investigation, around early 1992, I met someone who lived in the Napa Valley at that time and who attended a UFO interest group's monthly meeting that I often went to. also. He and I became friends over time, and at some point that year and later, he told me of a series of odd overflights that were repeatedly occurring by large, fast "black helicopters," flying from the east, or Central Valley area of California, over Oakville, a little town some miles north of the town of Napa itself, and that would fly during the day (rarely), sunset hours, and mainly at night into the western hills of Napa. The friend was a MUFON investigator, and became curious as to what was going on over the course of that year, and just what the helicopters were doing up in the hills northwest of his locale. He used an interesting approach, by hiking into the hills several times during that period, kind of tacking around in the old mining areas of the rugged outback there by walking the fire roads and trails up in the hills at approximately where the camouflaged helicopters had each time been last observed prior to disappearing somwhere up there. Usually hours would go by before the helicopters, at night, would return from where they had gone, flying back fairly low out of the hills from the west back toward the east valley area. There didn't seem to be any particular pattern to the low overflights, and which sometimes involved group of 2 or 3 military helos. A few times, when hiking toward sunset or after dark in the hilly area, my friend saw short bursts of blue laser light going up into the sky from the hills, which was very sparsely popu- lated, mainly by fairly rich people like Robin Williams and Francis Ford Coppola, who both had large estate properties or vineyards up in this famous wine and grape-growing area. Most of the hill region was either private property, regional wilderness park land, and one or more spots were owned by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). At one point, after he told me of the odd, frequent overflights up there, and the blue light beams originating in some unknown section of the hills, I became intrigued enough, since my friend thought there might be some UFO connection, possibly, and we decided to join forces to probe further. I had a company back then, and an employee who was in flight school, learning to fly small single-engine aircraft, so I hired him to fly over the area concerned to see what could be discerned at altitude that might provide some clues. On this one-time flight, on an Easter Sunday, we noticed a large, fortified telephone company microwave transmission and relay facility at the top of one of the hills. There were no windows in the building, and I took photos of the place which, when I looked them over, seemed to show the facility was built in a way, with an exterior perimeter wall, that suggested in was a hardened or blast-resistant structure, and that a very large and tall microwave tower was located next to it, covered with various antennas and dishes, some of which pointed upward at an angle, suggesting satellite communications. While I never saw any black heliocopters (I camped out in to the north of the area one night, on a weekend, and saw nothing), when we landed at a local Napa airport after survey- ing the area, I noticed two very newish, white 737 or 727 jets parked side by side there. A flight crew emerged from one as we walked toward the terminal and I overheard a bit of talk that led me to think the jets were there on assignment that was related to the helicopter activity. In addition, the jets were unmarked, were not airline related, and the only specific markings I observed were that the two large jets had closely matching tail numbers, only. I later looked up or traced the tail numbers via the internet, and called a couple phone numbers, and found out the jets were leased from one aviation company to another, which seemed government connected somehow. To make a long story shorter, my friend eventually found an area up in the hills off a fire road that had a cluster of ground based microwave dishes in a little area with related, small cabinets and small buildings (for power, etc., I guess), and that the dishes mainly pointed up to the sky and toward the microwave tower a few miles north of there, where the telco company hardened facility was located. My friend had brought a video camera with him, in case any flight activity occurred so that he could document it, late that afternoon. In a very strange, relatively brief incident, when my friend was about 50 to 60 yards away from the cluster of ground dishes, and panning his camera over the area and toward a hill in the distance about 80 yards away, the sound of a large helicopter approaching became quickly louder, and my friend panned up and found a large, very dark military helicopter, an MH-60, moving directly overhead and hovering over my friend as he video-taped them. On the segment of tape I viewed later, the MH-60, which is used for special ops and certain continuity of government and operations (COG/COOP) programs, was just sitting there, about 50 to 60 feet up in the air, with the pilot looking down over my friend's location. My friend later thought it likely he might have tripped some ground sensors or surveillance devices as he got close to this locale. He kind of got worried, since he was on private land (and it turned out later, when maps were reviewed, it was an isolated tract of land, maybe 60 acres or more, owned by the BLM), and began to get a little freaked about being arrested for tress- passing, and immediately shut the camera down, and ran off into the woods, making his way back to the trailhead shortly after. When the video was subsequently examined, by me and another fairly knowledgeable and expert former military man who did investigative reporting in the area, something very curious was seen briefly on the tape. About 60 to 80 yards away, as the camera had panned across the landscape very shortly before the helicopter appeared overhead, could be seen a large, dark doorway built directly into the vertical hillside, large enough to drive an 18-wheel semi through, if there had been any access road to it, which there was not. Another intriguing physical fact was that all the plants, bushes, and other vegetation in front of the black doorway were all no more than 3 or 4 feet high, and if you played the tape back and forth, it appeared that some attempt had been made to cut all the surrounding bushes in this scrub area down to an even height, presumably for helicopters to land without their blades hitting anything nearby when landing near the door and cluster of dishes, none of the latter of which were more than about 5 to 10 feet high on poles. As it all turned out, and after some extenisve investigation, it seemed my friend and some associates had inadvertently found a relatively new and highly secured, camouflaged location where an underground communication and coordination bunker was located, and which was a central part of the SF/Bay Area COG relocation shelter and emergency government communications "arc" (a radius area some distance away from probable ground nuclear blast and radiation effects near some urban areas) that was neatly sheltered in a converted underground mine shaft that had been in the process of being enhanced and retro-fitted with advanced, new COG radio, microwave, and possibly laser-based communications equipment. No UFOs, per se, but still pretty darn intriguing. Some of this got into the local paper, who ridiculed the idea, and my friend's finding, for his interest in and association with UFO research and activism, but we all decided to let it slide, due to personal concerns over possible prosecution or potential problems from the feds, and legit national security issues. After all, we had initially just been curious about a possible UFO or related flap, based on preliminary unusual military activity. So, we dropped the matter, and left it alone. Months later, my friend returned to the COOP locale, and found that a kind of large heap or mound of fresh-cut brush had been piled in front of the black doorway, to obscure it. from view or curiosity seekers (or overhead satellite surveillance, we guessed). A couple months later, in early winter of the same year, my friend again visited the area a final time, staying some distance away, and noted through binoculars with some amusement that the brush camouflaging the doorway entrance had dropped all it's leaves, leaving a huge snarl of bare branches, and made the spot look even more anomalous than it had been originally. So, the reason I mention this is that, in my own research of related matters, it would not be illegal or terribly unusual for various aircraft, helicopters, and possibly drones to be overflying certain rural areas, whether they were part of an MOA or not, as COG facilities, of which there at least 100 nationwide to help deal with the aftermath of either a large- scale war, nuclear strike, regional natural disaster, or large civil insurrection (this all used to be covered under something called Operation Garden Plot, and is still documented via various military OPLANS) under what is now called continuity of operations, or COOP. Under the Reagan administration, there was a massive effort costing 10's of billions to upgrade, relocate, and outfit with improved, hardened (against EMP) comm equipment both domestic and overseas COG/COOP faciities in case things, one way or another, went to hell. Additionally, besides COOP ops and periodic flight training missions and exercises, where some unusual flight activities can be observed in areas not usually associated with military bases or MOAs, etc., there are nap-of-the-earth, terrain-following helicopter, aircraft, and drone squadrons and secretive special ops training flight activity which occur in what might at first impression be areas where this either does not or "should not" happen. But, it does, and continues. So, maybe this is a partial explanation or my speculation on what might be the source and cause of some of the Hudson Valley/Adirondack/Catskill area unusual flight activity going on lately. Since these flight activities are obviously highly important to defensive national security, and most often highly classified and unacknowledged by the military or federal government, such flights in these kinds of cases may remain unexplained and denied when investigated, from my experience with the situation that transpired in the Napa area over several months, 20 years ago. Steve Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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