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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2011 > Oct > Oct 7

Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

From: Michael Tarbell <mtarbell.nul>
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:00:59 -0600
Archived: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 08:11:23 -0400
Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?


>From: Gerald O'Connell <goc.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 20:31:16 +0100
>Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
>>To: <post.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 16:17:24 +0100
>>Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

>>>From: Michael Tarbell <mtarbell.nul>
>>>To: post.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 15:08:15 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: D'oh! Light Speed Threshold Broken?

>>>I can't agree that "according a special status to consciousness"
>>>amounts to anything like "anthropocentric conceit". Indeed, I
>>>would contend that the "special" (perhaps metaphysical) nature
>>>of consciousness argues for it being a property of the universe
>>>itself, rather than of the human species. I.e., the whole thing
>>>is sentient, not just (if even) us individually.

>Well, Michael, if you don't have consciousness then your ability
>to write about your doubt about having consciousness belongs
>firmly in the realm of the truly inexplicable. In Cartesian
>terms, you post, therefore you think (which, of course, doesn't
>rule out posting before you think. as some members clearly
>do...).

Here I thought that I'd exited this thread gracefully, only to
be hauled out of bed to answer charges of inexplicability!

At no point have I expressed doubt of having consciousness. The
latter is about the only thing of which I have absolute
certitude, opinions of other Listers notwithstanding.

What I questioned (via the "if even" qualifier in my original
post), was the concept of consciousness sequestered into
multiple independent individuals who cavort amongst inert
obstacles, as opposed to consciousness being a more fundamental
and ubiquitous property of the universe itself.

>I'd suggest that the evidence for the universe not being
>conscious is as strong as the evidence for your being conscious.

I agree. You have equal amounts of evidence for both
propositions. It's a nice round figure.

>>"Humanity is bigger than any one individual, and it seems to
>>have collective purposes of its own that individuals cannot
>>easily detect, let alone grasp as a whole."

>I think the most polite way I can describe that view is
>'teleological claptrap'. Man is a social animal and often groups
>of men work together with a common purpose. That's about as far
>as it goes. To reify the whole of humanity into a meta-entity
>that is capable of having a purpose mysteriously obscured from
>the individuals who constitute that entity is a small step for
>two deluded men, but a giant leap back into the dark ages for
>mankind. Far better that we preserve our dignity by taking
>direct responsibility for the future and attempt to shape it
>according to our best instincts.
\

Here I think, for my own part, I must be misinterpreting you.
One could insert a variety of phenomena (anything from slime-
molds to ant colonies) in place of "humanity" in the quote
above, to arrive at what would seem to be a rather
uncontroversial observation. To reject in principle that it can
be applied to humanity might be considered, to borrow the
phrase, anthropocentric conceit.

>>It wouldn't have resonated with me in a 'New Age' publication
>>but that was written by a mathematician and a biologist; the
>>Profs Stewart and Cohen

>See, some mathematicians and biologists have got religion, some
>have lost it, and some still need to find a 'meaning' to things.
>That doesn't mean it's there.

Concluding again on a note of solid agreement! Don't make me come
back.


Best Regards

Mike




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