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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2011 > Mar > Mar 26

Re: 'Evidence'

From: Rick Nielsen <nilthchi.nul>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 20:19:53 -0700 (PDT)
Archived: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:49:28 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Evidence'


>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
>To: <post.nul>
>Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:45:01 -0000
>Subject: 'Evidence' [was: Abduction Story By Sammy Hagar]

>>From: Rick Nielsen <nilthchi.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:15:55 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Abduction Story By Sammy Hagar

>>>From: Ray Dickenson <r.dickenson.nul>
>>>To: <post.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:41:09 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Abduction Story By Sammy Hagar

>>>You can't have it both ways Rick. If I give an eye-witness
>>>report in court of an event that no-one else saw, that's a
>>>piece of "evidence".

>>You're right Ray: I won't have it both ways.

<snip>

>>A little skepticism is still a good thing. Don't you think?

>Hi Rick,

>Right, yet your interest in defining 'evidence' is more than
>justified, because that question's a big problem for all of
>science, including ufology.

>At the moment scientists say that 'scientific evidence' must be
>verifiable and repeatable (as you said). Which means that under
>the same conditions, applying the same factors should produce
>the same results. Yet it is becoming clear that science cannot
>accurately measure or even reliably detect some of those
>conditions and factors.

>An example in the purely physical plane is that 'inertial
>force'. We know it exists because bodies have inertia; which is
>unexplainable by science just now:

www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/inertfey.txt

>Science can't measure that force except by continually
>monitoring the existing inertia of all bodies in their
>experiments - and that's so inconvenient/difficult that it is
>rarely if ever done. So most of our scientific experiments or
>tests  are incomplete and therefore possibly flawed in that
>respect.

>Yet we also 'know/believe' - from many _official_ sightings -
>that some bodies (UFOs) can act as if they are completely free
>of inertia, and can even control or modify the inertia of nearby
>human technology (and maybe humans' brains) -
>http://www.ufoupdateslist.com/2011/mar/m16-003.shtml

>So those purely physical events/phenomena are outside the range
>of our present (human) scientific questioning.

>And in the esoteric and maybe recondite area of perceptions or
>mental and maybe e.sp. effects, the situation seems even worse.

>I.e analogous to 'inertia', science says that a "sheep-goat
>effect" exists -

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/xge/36/3/271/

>and

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/psi/delanoy/delanoy.pdf

>by which physical outcomes of experiments are actually changed
>by the positive or negative mind-sets of participants.

>Again it seems difficult or impossible to quantify -
>continuously measure and monitor - the amount of 'positivity' or
>'negativity' in the minds of participants. So again we are faced
>with phenomena outside the range of our present (human)
>scientific questioning.

>Way to go.


I'm sorry but I'm at a loss as to how this helps. You appear to
be only offering an expansion of what we've already discussed in
this thread. I suppose I could understand this better if it's
only your intention to advance your own web space. Not a bad
thing; just be out with it please, if that's your intent.

You're still referring to that arrogant Aristotelianism I
mentioned previously in this thread. Aristotelianism being a
modernization of that originally Greek thought that all
physicalities could be explained with abstractions and models.
Hence the Greek geometries. And since all things real first
exist to us in each of our own individual and unexplainable
minds, further journeys down this path end in much frustration
and miniscule progress.

The other side of the coin is usually some belief system,
whether called scientific hypothesis or tenet of faith. I also
referred to this previously in this thread as a rehashed
religiosity. This path can be just as frustrating and stifling.

But might I also repeat that we also have what I and others have
defined as real witness testimony and real physical evidence. In
other words, we have the real world, without which we'd be
stuck. We breathe it, eat it, sleep in it, work in it, live in
it.




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