From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:59:20 -0500 Archived: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:13:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Third Kingdom Experiences >From: Dave Haith <visions1.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <post.nul> >Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:14:05 +0100 >Subject: Re: Third Kingdom Experiences >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <post.nul> >>Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:12:36 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Alien Museum On Alien Abduction Case >They exist >- often >vividly - in experience, and experience alone. >Jerry, it's your last sentence here I'd like to comment on: >"They exist - often vividly - in experience, and experience >alone." >But my point in discussing The Gold Leaf Lady and Skinwalker and >if you like acres of parapsychological literature, is that just >sometimes these things exist in experience but also NOT in >experience alone. >There are such things as 'apports' - solid objects which >seemingly 'arrive' from elsewhere as in the brass in Braude's >case, the prize bulls which were moved from a field to >a container in the Skinwalker case and umpteen coins, >jewellery and photographs in the Scole case. >How do we fit these permanent incursions into our solid physical >world into your Third Kingdom concept except by surmising that >there is a multi-dimensional universe where there can >occasionally be 'bleed throughs' from other worlds to ours? >Or do I suspect that you dismiss entirely the claimed phenomena >mentioned above? These are excellent questions, Dave. Let me see if I can respond in a way that makes sense to anybody besides me. My interest in experience anomalies is focused on spontaneous cases. The ideas began to form as I immersed myself in folkloric texts about fairy traditions and, especially, the firsthand encounters that inevitably figure in them. (Folklorists call the latter "memorates," by the way.) Jacques Vallee raised this issue in his important 1969 book Passport to Magonia, but I had never been satisfied with his treatment, which struck me as not fully formed. Nor, in my judgment, had self-proclaimed skeptics used folkloric materials meaningfully; theirs was a rhetorical strategy only, in which if you could mention fairies and UFOs in the same sentence you could magically render the latter as ostensibly absurd as the former. Actually, folklorists are often puzzled by firsthand testimony to supernatural occurrences. Some ignore the problem by making no comment on it at all in print, just reproducing the accounts as examples of the sorts of things some people believe to be true. Some others concoct far-fetched reductionist explanations (my favorite: encounters with malformed humans). Others admit they have no explanation and resist speculation. A very few, Evans-Wentz most famously, theorize about parallel worlds. Just about everybody agrees, however, that experiences of perceived fairies do happen. I've spoken with people who've had them, most recently just a month ago. One thing people don't talk about is hoax and fraud as sweeping explanations. Overwhelmingly, the informants are manifestly sincere, if na=EFve. (The notorious Cottingley fairy photographs are, of course, another matter.) If one acknowledges as much, how does one deal with such testimony without having to believe in the literal existence of fairies? Which, to be sure I'm not misunderstood, I don't. Thus, experience anomalies. I have deliberately stayed away from thorny questions of spirit mediumship, especially physical mediumship (which of course is where apports come in), because it is riddled with fraud and allegations, founded or unfounded, of same. Simply from having worked at Fate all those years, I know more about the history of psychical research than most people - enough to know I cannot begin to claim expertise (or, I confess, much interest). I do feel comfortable in the Fortean realm, of which I can boast a reasonable knowledge base. The questions, in short, are already complicated enough without having to deal with charges of human misbehavior. Incidentally, I wish to stress that "experience anomaly" is a concept, a description of a certain class of hard-to-grasp phenomenal encounter, _not_ an explanation of such. >Thanks for the mention of those books in another post - I >will definitely be seeking them out. In that regard, please allow me a shameless plug: my own Hidden Realms, Lost Civilizations, and Beings from Other Worlds, which Visible Ink Press published last year. The last section of the book examines fairy encounters, 19th-C. airship reports, and other high-strangeness phenomena (much of the material will be new even to veteran anomalists) in the context of experience anomalies. Jerry Clark Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
[ Next Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |
UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp