From: Gerald O'Connell <goc.nul> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 02:23:26 +0000 Archived: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:01:48 -0500 Subject: Re: McGonagle's Ufological Stand >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:27:32 +0000 >Subject: Re: McGonagle's Ufological Stand >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: <post.nul> >>Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:46:11 -0400 >>Subject: Re: McGonagle's Ufological Stand ><snip> >>So the Bobby went into an altered state of consciousness? >>What did he walk around in a trance later? >>Andy Roberts sets the tone. >>When in doubt come up with the bogus psychological angle. Enter >>the realm of the witchdoctors. Make the case a metal case. >>Attack/trash the witness. Mind you this doesn't stop the likes >>of Andy Roberts and David Clarke from pumping out UFO books. But >>the documentary people fall happily into this tripe every time >>as they attempt to 'balance' out the statements by the witnesses >>- who apparently are mental cases including the police - with a >>'sober' explanation which is usually unresearched (enter >>Roberts) and in this case ridiculous and probably should have >>been grounds for libel. >>But this is the kind of drivel that Rimmer and McGonagle buy >>into. >What qualifies you to determine whether or not 'altered states' >is drivel or that the psychological angle is 'bogus'? I suspect >that is just your opinion rather than a fact, or are we supposed >to think that your opinion and fact are in all things identical? Everybody has opinions, if they didn't then lists like this wouldn't see many posts. I suspect that Don is every bit as formally unqualified to pronounce on altered psychological states as is Andy Roberts. Does that matter? Of course not, Joe. This is a discussion, not a court of law. What is sloppy and unjustified is to attribute an anomalous event to an altered psychological state without considering whether the event itself might have been the cause of the altered psychological state. Because the witness said 'at first I thought it was a bus' Roberts seizes on this as the 'real' event and posits an altered psychological state as the explanation for the misidentification. But this sequence of events (apparently the witness's one and only total loss of all grip on reality) has no more prima facie probability than his having seen something shockingly anomalous, initially struggled to classify it in terms of everyday reality and then being forced to try to come to terms with its anomalous nature. If he did experience an altered psychological state then we have no evidence as to its cause, and no reason to rule out its having been caused by an objective, real, anomalous event. When discussing the probity and significance of witness accounts it is all too easy to discount the impact of shock on the human mind. An event that suddenly, unexpectedly and radically undermines the witness's ordered world-view and sense of reality can have an enormous and instant psychological impact. It should not be surprising, therefore, if some witness accounts, in certain circumstances, are inconsistent or garbled. This doesn't justify an assumption that the witness's confusion is somehow the cause of the reported anomaly. In addition to writing about UFOs Andy Roberts has also published a book about LSD. Perhaps his detailed researches into the latter have coloured his views on the applicability of altered psychological states to the former. 'Transference' is, I believe, the technical term for the process... -- Gerald O'Connell http://www.onlyport.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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