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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2011 > Apr > Apr 20

Re: Trindade 'Negative Witness' Found

From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:45:41 +0100
Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:43:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Trindade 'Negative Witness' Found

>From: John Rimmer <johnrimmer.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:34:55 +0100 (BST)
>Subject: Re: Trindade 'Negative Witness' Found

>>From: Kentaro Mori <kentaro.mori.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:30:51 -0300
>>Subject: Trindade 'Negative Witness' Found

>Game, set and match.


Do you mean that the question of whether any Navy crew witnesses
saw the object, apart from Barauna and his civilian companions,
has at last been answered - in the negative? And is it your
conclusion that, therefore, an object allegedly seen only by
Barauna and those often charmingly referred to as his "cronies"
never existed?

A 1958 Brazilian Navy intelligence evalutaion stating not only
that there _were_ Navy witnesses, but that it had indeed been
they in the bow and stern of the ship who raised the initial
alarm on deck, was never considered by you as bearing on the
answer to that question, because after all everyone is fallible,
even Navy intelligence captains and their Navy sources (in
particular the Navy's designated cognizant technical
investigator on the spot, Capt Bacellar), and there's always
room for doubt, right?

Similarly the fact that the Captain of the Almirante Saldanha
told the US Assistant Naval Attache in 1958 that his own
Executive Assistant, a Navy Commander, had himself seen it (the
officer in question did not deny it when questioned), was I
suspect considered by you a wholly negligible fact, presumably
for similar reasons.

1958 statements by another officer on the ship, Capt Paulo de
Castro Moreira da Silva, attested to at least five Navy
witnesses in addition to the three civilians. I expect you can
articulate good reasons why this has never seemed to have any

One of those civilians, govt banker Amilar Vieira, was from the
start a reluctant witness who, AFAICS, earned the somewhat
baffled respect of sceptics who interviewed him recently before
his death by insisting clearly and firmly that he saw an object,
that this was the simple fact and that he would never deny it,
whatever may be said about Barauna and his photos. I don't
recall that discussion of these interviews on this list excited
you to comment.

Even the recent "hoax" claimant, Barauna's nephew Marcelo
Ribeiro who said (unintelligibly as it happens) that his uncle
opportunistically faked the photos using Carioca bus tokens
(bluntly, impossible), said Barauna privately assured him that
"in reality, people saw something", but he dismissed it as a
strange "cloud phenomenon" or something else.

Having been singularly unimpressed by any testimony old or new
tending to indicate the existence of Navy witnesses, could you
explain why now, without even the ghost of a question, you
wholeheartedly - not to say recklessly - embrace the 50-year-old
memory-based opinion of one Edson Jansen Ferreira that there was
nothing there?

OK, let's suppose Jansen's headline claim can be regarded as
clear and unquestionable evidence that we don't need to filter
or interpret, it is still mysterious to me that you deduce the
non-existience of crew witnesses from the fact that Jansen
himself, giving evidence against the interest of own his
scepticism of Barauna (combatively expressd), tells us that he
saw something being excitedly pointed at by some number of
"sailors", in addition to "some civilian that was there, you
know, returning home". Wondering "what made everyone [except me]
see - and I didn't see"  he suggests that these crewmen and
civilians "all were induced", i.e. convinced each other by
suggestion that they could see something, whilst Edson Jansen
Ferreira alone could see that the emperor had no clothes.

This is an interesting opinion and a claim worth considering. It
undoubtedly has some weight that the only surviving located
crewman said he saw nothing (Kentaro refers to some ambiguity in
his assurance that he was on deck at the right time, which may
be clarified when the full interview is made available - and why
not now, BTW?). Just as it has some weight that the only
surviving "crony" reaffirmed, rather credibly IMO, that he saw
something. It ought also to have some weight that Jansen
himself, whilst saying that he was not himself a crewman who
believed he saw something, confirms that there were crewmen who

Martin Shough

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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