From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:45:41 +0100 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:43:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade 'Negative Witness' Found >From: John Rimmer <johnrimmer.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:34:55 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: Trindade 'Negative Witness' Found >>From: Kentaro Mori <kentaro.mori.nul> >>To: post.nul >>Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:30:51 -0300 >>Subject: Trindade 'Negative Witness' Found >Game, set and match. John, Do you mean that the question of whether any Navy crew witnesses saw the object, apart from Barauna and his civilian companions, has at last been answered - in the negative? And is it your conclusion that, therefore, an object allegedly seen only by Barauna and those often charmingly referred to as his "cronies" never existed? A 1958 Brazilian Navy intelligence evalutaion stating not only that there _were_ Navy witnesses, but that it had indeed been they in the bow and stern of the ship who raised the initial alarm on deck, was never considered by you as bearing on the answer to that question, because after all everyone is fallible, even Navy intelligence captains and their Navy sources (in particular the Navy's designated cognizant technical investigator on the spot, Capt Bacellar), and there's always room for doubt, right? Similarly the fact that the Captain of the Almirante Saldanha told the US Assistant Naval Attache in 1958 that his own Executive Assistant, a Navy Commander, had himself seen it (the officer in question did not deny it when questioned), was I suspect considered by you a wholly negligible fact, presumably for similar reasons. 1958 statements by another officer on the ship, Capt Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva, attested to at least five Navy witnesses in addition to the three civilians. I expect you can articulate good reasons why this has never seemed to have any weight. One of those civilians, govt banker Amilar Vieira, was from the start a reluctant witness who, AFAICS, earned the somewhat baffled respect of sceptics who interviewed him recently before his death by insisting clearly and firmly that he saw an object, that this was the simple fact and that he would never deny it, whatever may be said about Barauna and his photos. I don't recall that discussion of these interviews on this list excited you to comment. Even the recent "hoax" claimant, Barauna's nephew Marcelo Ribeiro who said (unintelligibly as it happens) that his uncle opportunistically faked the photos using Carioca bus tokens (bluntly, impossible), said Barauna privately assured him that "in reality, people saw something", but he dismissed it as a strange "cloud phenomenon" or something else. Having been singularly unimpressed by any testimony old or new tending to indicate the existence of Navy witnesses, could you explain why now, without even the ghost of a question, you wholeheartedly - not to say recklessly - embrace the 50-year-old memory-based opinion of one Edson Jansen Ferreira that there was nothing there? OK, let's suppose Jansen's headline claim can be regarded as clear and unquestionable evidence that we don't need to filter or interpret, it is still mysterious to me that you deduce the non-existience of crew witnesses from the fact that Jansen himself, giving evidence against the interest of own his scepticism of Barauna (combatively expressd), tells us that he saw something being excitedly pointed at by some number of "sailors", in addition to "some civilian that was there, you know, returning home". Wondering "what made everyone [except me] see - and I didn't see" he suggests that these crewmen and civilians "all were induced", i.e. convinced each other by suggestion that they could see something, whilst Edson Jansen Ferreira alone could see that the emperor had no clothes. This is an interesting opinion and a claim worth considering. It undoubtedly has some weight that the only surviving located crewman said he saw nothing (Kentaro refers to some ambiguity in his assurance that he was on deck at the right time, which may be clarified when the full interview is made available - and why not now, BTW?). Just as it has some weight that the only surviving "crony" reaffirmed, rather credibly IMO, that he saw something. It ought also to have some weight that Jansen himself, whilst saying that he was not himself a crewman who believed he saw something, confirms that there were crewmen who did. Martin Shough Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
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