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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2010 > Oct > Oct 25

Re: MJ-12 Redux

From: Stanton T. Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 15:16:16 -0300
Archived: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 07:46:40 -0400
Subject: Re: MJ-12 Redux

This thread was going too long and too confused, so I would like
to summarize things as I see them.

1. Kevin Randle and I agree that we don t have a true provenance
for EBD, TF, CT. To him this means they are hoaxes. To me the
absence of a provenance tells us nothing about whether they are
a hoax or not. Policemen and journalists often deal with
anonymous tips. It is the content that matters, not the
provenance. Certainly nobody is saying that if the provenance
were known, that would make the documents genuine. We know the
provenance of documents put forth by Frank Kaufman. The
documents were hoaxes

2. With regard to contents, Kevin believes that noted Forensic
document expert Peter Tytell s casual comments (clearly
indicating his recall was inaccurate), say the TF typeface was a
hoax. James Black s professional examination official comments(
I did not ask for those items Kevin says Peter says I asked for)
Indicate the typeface is from 1940. Quite early enough to say
that doesn t rule out legitimacy. There are details such as the
obvious fact that the date was typed by 2 typewriters and has a
period after it, standard for Van Bush s office. George Elsey
saw no problem with it having been typed there. Black, as I have
noted, also said the HST signature was added. I found the
signature in a Bush file item from Truman. Pflock said the CIA
easily could have added it. Forrestal who would have had the
original signed copy died in 1949. RHH after all had been DCI.

3.KR felt the data format was at variance with standard
practice. I agree, but found many examples of non standard date
formats.. some by Hillenkoetter and MJ-12 member Smith

4, KR now no longer claims that RHH s rank is the most important
Consideration, but still raises questions. I found many many
examples of generic ranks used at the Ike White House. It was
standard procedure. Ike also used them in Mandate for Change .

5. KR is not happy about the EBD being sent to Jaime Shandera.
Apparently he was unaware that I brought JS and Bill Moore
together and they had been working together for years. Jaimie
gave a talk at a Burbank UFO conference and had been to archives
and met some of Moore s sources.. I can t imagine anybody
wanting effective document or Roswell research to send them to
Dr. Hynek

6. Critics have objected to the Use of TOP SECRET Restricted on
the CT. I found comments from the GAO that they had found
examples of that.

7. Critics have complained that there were no TOP SECRET Control
Numbers. Two archives have stated they had many TS documents
without Control Numbers

8. Some have expressed doubt that RHH wrote the EBD. Dr. Roger
Wescott examined 25 genuine RHH documents which I had obtained
from the Truman Library and concluded that RHH wrote the

9. It had been objected that the CT memo must be a hoax because
Robert Cutler was out of the USA on the date it was written.
Thus, It would indeed have been a hoax, if it had been signed.
It wasn t. That he was out wasn't known until long after
document discovery at the Nat. Archives. How did the hoaxer know
not to sign it? I was informed of it the same night by phone. It
was found in Box 189.. Box 189 was noted on a post card .. as
was Reese s pieces and Suitland. Ed Reese was archivist at NARA
and known to us. Suitland was also an Archive. It took me 2
years via mandatory classification review to obtain a letter
from James Lay, Exec. Sec. of the NSC to Cutler .It (included in
my Final Report on Operation Majestic 12 ) clearly indicated
that Lay was taking care of things for Cutler during his absence
as he had been instructed in the memo found earlier by Robert
Todd. George Elsey thought it would have ben standard practice
for Lay to prepare the memo to Twining for Cutler. Lay and
Cutler sat next to each other at NSC meetings and each got
copies of the other s paperwork. How did a hoaxer know this??

10. There was a howl from the Ufology community when Jerry Clark
had the courage to publish my article on The Double Life of
Donald Menzel. Menzel provides a good example of highly
classified work not being known to the outside world despite all
his years of such work. It isn t mentioned in two articles in
Sky and Telescope about Menzel. Secrets can indeed be kept. As
Kevin has correctly pointed out, I found nothing about MJ-12 in
the papers of DHM or Van Bush or the other 9 MJ- 12 members. I
can t imagine why it would be expected that I would. These were
world class experts at keeping secrets There are tens of
millions of classified documents throughout the US including
presidential archives many of which I have visited.

11. A major objection by Kevin is that the EBD doesn t say
anything about the Aztec and Plains of San Agustin crashes which
I am convinced did happen. I certainly agree its says nothing
about them. I can find no reason to think that a Preliminary
Briefing made during a short session in the Pentagon vault would
cover info on two cases that had not received much public
discussion. After all a full operational briefing was to follow.
Neither Kevin nor I were privy to discussions about what should
have been excluded or included

12. There is of course the Pica type fiasco as a result of which
Klass paid me $ 1000. For proving him wrong.

13. There are several interesting dates in the EBD such as the
date of Smith replacing Forrestal (the only date in a long
period when Smith met with HST)the date when Twining went to NM,
of the one meeting over several months when HST, Van Bush, and
James Forrestal met.

14. KR has objected that not one other document was found
mentioning Operation Majestic 12. I didn t find any classified
documents in Menzel s papers either. But his secretary and his
own comments indicate that he did loads of classified work. I
can t imagine the MJ-12 people being careless about security.

Stan Friedman

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