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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2010 > Oct > Oct 5

Re: Shostak's Search Shift?

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:52:31 -0700 (PDT)
Archived: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 11:04:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Shostak's Search Shift? 

>From: J. Maynard Gelinas <j.maynard.gelinas.nul>
>To: post.nul
>Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 21:08:57 -0400
>Subject: Re: Shostak's Search Shift?

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: post.nul
>>Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 09:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Shostak's Search Shift?

>Mr. Friedman,

>I would like to offer a response and defense of the scientific
>establishment here. For while some of your criticisms are
>accurate, they are also infused with sarcasm belies a similar
>confirmation bias in your response. This is Kuhn playing itself
>out from both angles, without any reasonable common ground
>between the two sides. Yet neither you nor Dr. Shostak know the
>underlying reality here. Nor do I.

>>Obviously the SETI community is unwilling to spend any time
>>reviewing the enormous amount of evidence that aliens have
>>been visiting Earth for at least many decades if not millennia.

>>Super sentients: YES! Aliens: NO! is the motto here.

>Yes. Let's be clear, Dr Shostak and the scientific majority do
>not view a "preponderance of the evidence" in the form of
>witness testimony and unverified documents to be _science._ Real
>scientists limit their factual statements highly specific claims
>based on repeat observations of controlled phenomena. UFOs are
>most certainly not under controls, and repetitions are
>intermittent and rarely recorded by instruments. Professional
>scientists _should_ be highly skeptical. Further, since the
>phenomena doesn't fit within the scientific method for study,
>professional scientists are limited in what and how to perform
>quantifiable research.

>That the majority have concluded - wrongly - that because they
>can't controllably test the phenomena therefore it must not
>exist is regrettable. Much time has been wasted. But it is not
>_unreasonable_. The difference between your claims about
>Roswell and the statements by >Dr. Shostak are very simple: he
>is speculating; nothing more.

>>It is clear from their books (which I have read) and their
>>articles and lectures which I have reviewed, that they
>>essentially never review the UFO evidence such as the 5 large
>>scale scientific studies, the many multiple witness radar visual
>>cases, the physical trace cases involving reports not only of
>>flying saucers on the ground, but the 15% of those cases
>>involving reports of humanoids.They know nothing about national

>Where are these humanoids? I've never seen one. I saw a flying
>saucer once; I definitely believe my own eyes. But I've never
>seen a humanoid alien. And I've got to say, the speculative
>arguments made by evolutionary biologists _against_ the notion
>of so many reports of different bilateral bipedal aliens make a
>lot of sense. The Pre-Cambrian explosion is just one example of
>how weird the morphology of biological forms can take. Life
>found in and around hydrothermal vents are another example of
>life taking form and sustenance in ways that belie the notion of
>repeating bilateral bipedalism throughout the nearby galaxy.
>There is simply no reason to assume that life repeats form
>across environments in that manner. From my perspective, those
>scientists have a strong point. The UFO community offers nothing
>to refute these arguments but testimony from alleged witnesses.

>So, the division here is: informed speculation vs. unverified
>testimony.  Who wins?

>>They also are unwilling to review the evidence of abductions.
>>I can find no reason to accept proclamations from radio
>>astronomers about the behavior of aliens, no less earthlings.

>>Of course the reason is obvious.

>>There is no need for listening for primitive signals from out
>>there using technology compatible with ours.If aliens are
>>visiting, as they surely are, SETI which is looking for signals
>>not looking for aliens, is out of business. They are truly
>>getting desperate. The collective rule is "Don't bother us with
>>the facts,our minds are made up."

>>How pathetic and irrational.

>I could not disagree more. The SETI scientists have used what
>technology was available to conduct a search you almost
>certainly _should_ approve of. Don't you want to find
>intelligent life outside Earth? He's trying! He has more money
>and resources than you, many smart scientists working very hard
>to determine new methods for search, and decades of negative
>findings behind him. I'm going to take a longshot guess that
>he's never seen a disc in broad daylight. Why should he take
>your word for it? Or anyone else's for that matter? And as for
>digging through FIOA documents and reading journalistic (Good)
>or historical (Nolan) accounts of the subject matter is simply
>not what that guy does for a living.

>>From my perspective, his words are neither irrational nor
>pathetic. Further, his insight on the potential for machine
>cognition as a means for life in space fits the known UFO facts
>just as well as those claims about biological entities. That is,
>if one takes the conservative perspective of Kean - that one
>should focus only on those cases with multiple simultaneous
>witnesses, radar records, and other physical evidence, then
>evidence for biological bipeds flying these things becomes
>somewhat scant.

>I don't write this to personally insult you. I greatly admire
>the hard work you put in collecting testimony and FOIA
>documents. But I think your statements here show a belligerence
>toward traditional space science that works at odds to your
>stated purpose: to get to the bottom of this weird UFO mystery.
>Shostack probably isn't interested in UFOs, but he does want to
>find alien intelligence. In that regard, you both seek the same

I find the above missive quite fascinating and unreal. Let us
face the simple fact that the SETI movement has provided no
evidence whatsoever of any kind that there are ETs out there
sending radio or laser signals here. _None, _zero_, Zzilch. I
certainly derive my conclusions from a great deal of evidence
which they refuse to examine. For example, Project Blue Book
Special Report 14 is an official USAF document (Not an
unverified document) with information on 3201 sightings, more
than 200 tables, charts, graphs and maps of data. It has
categorizations of all the reports, quality evaluations, cross
comparisons between UNKNOWNS and KNOWNS. No sightings could be
listed as UNKNOWN unless all 4 of the final report evaluators
agreed it was. SETI has put no signals out for review.

A statistical cross comparison between KNOWNS and UNKNOWNS
showed that the probability, based on 6 different
characteristics, that the UNKNOWNS were just missed KNOWNS was
less than 1%. The Better the quality of the sighting the more
likely to be an UNKNOWN. The duration of observation for the
UNKNOWNS was greater than for the KNOWNS. Admittedly the
Secretary of the Air Force lied about the report big time
claiming that only 3% of the cases could not be explained and
that was because there wasn't enough data. In fact 21.5% could
not be explained completely separate from the 9.3% listed as
insufficient Information. This is all discussed in "Flying
Saucers and Science". Seth has a copy. Of course the SETI people
refuse to examine the data. Perhaps JMG needs a refresher

Since when are witness statements not part of science?.
Astronomers have made many observations of meteors in the air
and use them to find them on the ground. They can't control or
repeat observations of eclipses or solar storms or earthquakes..
They can and do record observations when the opportunity
presents itself. Science is a method of approach to determine
the truth. It can be used to evaluate data from automobile
accidents, murders, airplane crashes even though they cannot be
controlled or reproduced. One can determine lengths of skid
marks, thickness of brake linings, alcohol levels in driver
blood, weather conditions.Again where are the scientific
observations and verified documents from the SETI people? We
have multiple witness radar visual cases, photographs, physical
trace cases with soil analysis, abductions with marks on the
abductees. JMG you really need to do some homework or help them
out.I will take the testimony of retired military officers with
high level security clearances about simultaneous UFO
observations over nuclear tipped missiles as the missiles go to
a no-go situations.Leslie Kean's"UFOs" provides multiple
witness/instrument confirmations. SETI has provided none.

I am highly skeptical and maintain a large gray basket. SETI
specialists are skeptical about data they refuse to examine,but
have no skepticism about the notion that ETs are sending radio
signals using technology appropriate to our state of the art
with less than 100 years of sophisticated radio
technology.Apparently they think there will be no changes. I
suppose they are still using slide rules for calculations and
the pony express rather than computers and the internet for
information transfer..Skepticism surely doesn't mean one refuses
to look at the evidence.

The Bolender memo is not an unverified document. The numerous
whited out formerly TS code word NSA UFO documents are not
unverified nor are the many heavily blacked out CIA UFO
documents. The USAF admitted it ordered military pilots to shoot
down UFOs if they refused to land when instructed to do so.

If there was no evidence that aliens were visiting, I suppose I
could say why not look for radio signals?. But that evidence is
plentiful. 30% of the cases investigated by the Condon crew
could not be identified though they were certainly anxious to do
so. I can't imagine that any serious scientist looking at the 41
cases reported by Dr. James E. McDonald in his congressional
testimony could say there was nothing there, but that signals
which haven't yet been observed after 5 decades of listening
must be there and from aliens. The astronomers won't even
reference astronomer Dr. J. Allan Hynek's UFO book though he was
the USAF scientific consultant on UFOs for 20 years. What are
they afraid of?

To data SETI has put out much noise but no signals. Ufology has
provided plenty of signal winnowed from the noise.

Of course I have never seen a neutron or a gamma ray or Tokyo or
South Africa or held a nuclear bomb, nor a piece of a black
hole or of a neutron star. Nor an alien. How scientific is it to
say if I haven't seen something, it doesn't exist? But if I want
to receive a radio signal from ET it must exist?

SETI is the epitome of wishful thinking. It must feel terrible
to be so desperate.

Stan Friedman

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