From: Dave Haith <visions1.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:12:13 -0000 Archived: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:03:00 -0400 Subject: It's Just Not Science From: Dave Haith <visions1.nul> To: UFO UpDates <post.nul> Date: Weds, 28 Oct 2009 Subject: It's Just Not Science >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: post.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:23:02 EDT >Subject: Re: It's Just Not Science >>From: Jason Gamnmon <BoyintheMachine.nul> >>To: post.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:57:47 EDT >>Subject: Re: It's Just Not Science >>>From: Dave Haith <visions1.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates <post.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:54:15 -0000 >>>Subject: It's Just Not Science [was: Abduction Debunking Has Begun] >>>>From: Jason Gammon <boyinthemachine.nul> >>>>To: post.nul >>>>Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:50:09 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: Abduction Debunking Has Already Begun >>>>You've lost sight of the goal along the way. >>>>Get rid of Science and embrace Demonology! >>>>Right, Alfred? Demons did it! >>>Jason, >>>I understand your reasoning in clinging to the Great God Science >>>to make sense of our confusing world. After all it seems to be >>>the only thing we have - apart from the Demonology you mock.... >>>I too admire science - as far as it goes... >>>But of course it doesn't go very far. ><snip> >>>And all this crazy stuff is "not science as we know it Jim" but >>>as sure as eggs are eggs, it'll be science as we WILL know it >>>one distant day. >>>Dave Haith >>You have completely misunderstood my stance. >>"UFOs as Subconscious Projections" is not Science and never will >>be. Such a stance is on par with claims that UFOs/Aliens are >>Demons attempting to trick believers away from our Lord, Jesus >>Christ. <snip> >>If we are not talking about a "real" phenomena in the sense of >>our normal understanding of "real", then the subject is not >>worth researching or discussing. >>To conclude that UFOs are Subconscious Projections, or even the >>work of fairies or witches is to accept a claim without any >>proof or evidence. Strike that, it's actually worse as it >>includes the ignoring of the physical data implying the >>phenomena is grounded in reality, such as radar confirmations. >>I don't care who the person is, be they a big name in the field >>or not. If one is pushing for a magical explanation for the UFO >>phenomena then we should treat such people as "biblical lepers". >>Such individuals have wandered off the path of Science and are >>hopelessly lost in fantasy land. >>-Jason >This type of theory has been floating around whenever anything >new comes into our existence and threatens the status quo. >Delusions don't leave trace cases and don't show up on radar. >If they do then we need to rethink our own reality and our >participation in it. Greg Apparently mathematicians in the name of something called "conscious realism" are doing just what you suggest and rethinking our reality. I am informed by friends who better understand these things that: Conscious realism requires that we adopt the notion that consciousness- rather than matter - is fundamental. It acknowledges an objective reality but quickly cautions that conscious beings (such as humans) do not have direct access to objective reality. Instead, we have access to a symbolic iconography which we believe to be reality. Since we don't have direct access to objective reality, everything we know is based on our subjective experience: our observations of that iconographic symbolism. This of course includes our sciences and "physical laws". So we are constrained by our observational abilities. Anomalous phenomena, far from something to dismiss, is in reality an indicator that our synthesis of reliable observations, what some like to call 'science', is incomplete. Instead of refuting such anomalies, it is the job of science to explain them. Furthermore conscious realism states that this perceptual iconography is created by networks of conscious agents, some of whom, like humans, are likely hierarchical in nature. It is the consensus of these conscious agents which creates the iconography we all recognize. And while all humans are conscious agents, conscious realists suggest that not all conscious agents are human. Indeed some may be of forms either never or rarely encountered by humans directly. This opens the interesting door for experiences with the deceased, aliens and various other interesting things. Search for "Observer Mechanics" and "Conscious Realism" on the Web. One direct link to papers written by the original authors of the mathematical theory is: http://www.cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/ompref.html at Univ. of California, Irvine. A more readable paper on Conscious Realism: http://www.cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/ConsciousRealism2.pdf also at UCI. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast At: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/subscribers/ Your access info works there too... These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates - Toronto. They may not be reproduced without the express permission of both parties and are intended for educational use only.
[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |
UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp