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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2008 > May > May 29

Re: MoD File Release

From: Stanton T Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 10:28:04 -0300
Archived: Thur, 29 May 2008 20:01:36 -0400
Subject: Re: MoD File Release


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 13:24:14 +0100
>Subject: Re: MoD File Release

>>From: Stanton T Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:19:28 -0300
>>Subject: Re: MoD File Release

><snip>

>>Perhaps I missed it, but I have not seen any evidence that you
>>and Dave Clarke have high level security clearances and a need
>>to know for all or any classified UK military or intelligence
>>agency information about UFOs, alien spacecraft, anomalous
>>aerial vehicles, flying saucers, etc.

>Not that it's relevant, but I hold an SC clearance due to
>involvement in a sensitive communications contract. Dave
>Clarke's clearance is so high, he hasn't divulged it to me :-).

>For information about UK MoD security clearance, visit the MoD
>web site at:

>http://tinyurl.com/yyd6o7

>For three years during my army service I was working in Corps
>Headquarters at 1(BR) Corps in Germany and was privy to TOP
>SECRET material on a regular basis - none of which related to
>UFOs, but Air Defence was a topic which was discussed at Corps
>Commander's briefings which I was effectively present at (I
>managed the video and audio switching for the briefings), and
>UFOs never came up, even during heightened tension during the
>cold war.
>
>>For years , until a court case, the CIA denied having any
>>involvement other than the Robertson Panel. J.Edgar Hoover of
>>the FBI denied for years that the FBI had any involvement until
>>Bruce Maccabee used FOIA to find over 1500 pages of UFO
>>material. Would all RAAF UFO reports be in the MOD files?
>>Certainly in the USA military records are maintained separately
>>for the USAF, Navy, Army, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.
>
>I wouldn't state categorically that _all_ RAF reports will be in
>the MoD files, it is quite possible that some reports were
>misrouted and didn't reach the appropriate department, but I am
>positive that _the_majority_ of reports did do so. I have seen a
>few, two memorable ones are the 1990 Tornado case (which is
>included in Timothy Good's book 'Need to Know' along with the
>'Cosford' incident as unexplained reports). Details of the 1990
>case can be found at:
>
>http://www.ufonet.nl/nieuws/tornado/index2.html
>
>The other memorable report was made by the crew of a Vulcan
>nuclear bomber on a training flight over the North Atlantic. I
>just remembered another one involving a Vulcan of the coast of
>Wales. These all appeared in the MoD files, and again, there was
>little evidence of substantial investigation.
>
>It is also worth mentioning that if any government department or
>individual retains information requested under the FoIA contrary
>to the provisions of the Act, they are liable for prosecution. I
>don't think many Civil Servants or servicemen would risk their
>pensions by doing so, especially if they couldn't justify
>retention in their own minds.
>
>>I guess what I am suggesting is that you both seem to feel that
>>absence of evidence is evidence for absence and that, for
>>reasons unknown, you would know about everything that was there.
>>Are there really no black budget agencies in the UK??
>
>Obviously I can't state categorically that there are no 'black
>budget' agencies in the UK. What I can say is that our Armed
>Services are impoverished, having suffered many cutbacks since
>the Cold War, and that all Government spending is carefully
>scrutinised and reported on. For comparison, the MoD budget for
>the UK in 2007/2008 was approximately 65 billion USD, and the
>National Health Service budget approximately 180 billion USD.
>Compare our defence budget to that of the US (nearly 440 billion
>USD) and there isn't much scope for any slack.
>
>The 'absence of evidence' argument isn't my position - I argue
>that there is abundant evidence that the MoD have negligible
>interest in UFOs.



Thanks, Joe, for clarifying familiarity with security
procedures. We still have the problem of Need-to-know for
compartmented information about UFOs, and whether Dave Clarke
had a clearance of any kind.

You pointed out that MI5 and MI6 aren't covered by FOIA, right?


Stan Friedman




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