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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2008 > May > May 28

Re: MoD File Release

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 13:24:14 +0100
Archived: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:27:00 -0400
Subject: Re: MoD File Release

>From: Stanton T Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:19:28 -0300
>Subject: Re: MoD File Release


>Perhaps I missed it, but I have not seen any evidence that you
>and Dave Clarke have high level security clearances and a need
>to know for all or any classified UK military or intelligence
>agency information about UFOs, alien spacecraft, anomalous
>aerial vehicles, flying saucers, etc.

Not that it's relevant, but I hold an SC clearance due to
involvement in a sensitive communications contract. Dave
Clarke's clearance is so high, he hasn't divulged it to me :-).

For information about UK MoD security clearance, visit the MoD
web site at:


For three years during my army service I was working in Corps
Headquarters at 1(BR) Corps in Germany and was privy to TOP
SECRET material on a regular basis - none of which related to
UFOs, but Air Defence was a topic which was discussed at Corps
Commander's briefings which I was effectively present at (I
managed the video and audio switching for the briefings), and
UFOs never came up, even during heightened tension during the
cold war.

>For years , until a court case, the CIA denied having any
>involvement other than the Robertson Panel. J.Edgar Hoover of
>the FBI denied for years that the FBI had any involvement until
>Bruce Maccabee used FOIA to find over 1500 pages of UFO
>material. Would all RAAF UFO reports be in the MOD files?
>Certainly in the USA military records are maintained separately
>for the USAF, Navy, Army, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.

I wouldn't state categorically that _all_ RAF reports will be in
the MoD files, it is quite possible that some reports were
misrouted and didn't reach the appropriate department, but I am
positive that _the_majority_ of reports did do so. I have seen a
few, two memorable ones are the 1990 Tornado case (which is
included in Timothy Good's book 'Need to Know' along with the
'Cosford' incident as unexplained reports). Details of the 1990
case can be found at:


The other memorable report was made by the crew of a Vulcan
nuclear bomber on a training flight over the North Atlantic. I
just remembered another one involving a Vulcan of the coast of
Wales. These all appeared in the MoD files, and again, there was
little evidence of substantial investigation.

It is also worth mentioning that if any government department or
individual retains information requested under the FoIA contrary
to the provisions of the Act, they are liable for prosecution. I
don't think many Civil Servants or servicemen would risk their
pensions by doing so, especially if they couldn't justify
retention in their own minds.

>I guess what I am suggesting is that you both seem to feel that
>absence of evidence is evidence for absence and that, for
>reasons unknown, you would know about everything that was there.
>Are there really no black budget agencies in the UK??

Obviously I can't state categorically that there are no 'black
budget' agencies in the UK. What I can say is that our Armed
Services are impoverished, having suffered many cutbacks since
the Cold War, and that all Government spending is carefully
scrutinised and reported on. For comparison, the MoD budget for
the UK in 2007/2008 was approximately 65 billion USD, and the
National Health Service budget approximately 180 billion USD.
Compare our defence budget to that of the US (nearly 440 billion
USD) and there isn't much scope for any slack.

The 'absence of evidence' argument isn't my position - I argue
that there is abundant evidence that the MoD have negligible
interest in UFOs.



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