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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2008 > May > May 11

Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 22:22:54 -0400
Archived: Sun, 11 May 2008 07:44:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 14:59:52 -0300
>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 07:08:09 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:54:37 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals


>>>The flares burn with an output rated at up to 2 million
>>>candlepower. Can be seen at night for many tens of miles.

>>>The images in the 10:00pm videos do not show any smoke trails,
>>>but one wouldn't expect to see the light reflected from smoke
>>>from a great distance.

>>>Instead, the brightness of the flare would create an image that
>>essentially 'covers-up' any light from the smoke. (The image
>>actually recorded by the camera is many times larger than the
>>image would be if the camera optics were 'perfect'.

>>>Note that the image of a distant very bright light is much larger
>>>than the image of an equally distant' dim light. The image size
>>>increases with brightness.)

>>>The videos by Krzysten ("Krzysten arc") and C. Rairdon are
>>>particularly valuable for analysis because the lights are seen
>>>long enough to be able to prove that they drop downward and to
>>>the left, consistent with falling flares in an airmass that was
>>>moving west to east (right to left in the videos looking


>If memory serves it was nearly a couple of weeks [10 days?]
>before the AF copped to the training exercise.

The big sighting was March 13, 1997. It wasn't until June(?)
that the AF identified the "Snowbirds" (Maryland Air National
Guard; MANG) as the source of the flares that were ejected at
high altitude over the training range west of Tucson (south-
southwest of Phoenix)

>Also to clarify,
>I used the tower at Sky Harbour International AP as a measuring
>point to get distances from there to the restricted Military
>Operations Area. But Sky Harbour tower is about 11 miles south
>and slightly east of the city's center. That brings the 75 miles
i>nto play once more making the distance to the edge of to the
>closest SELLS MOA 65 miles.

>The personnel at that tower - field elevation 1,135 feet with
>the tower probably 100 feet higher than that - would have had
>their view of the AF flares blocked by South Mountain at a
>minimum of 2050 feet elevation with a tower sticking up a
>maximum of 1000 feet. Beyond that is the south end of the Sierra
>Estrella range at around 4,400 feet. Therefore the flares would
>have had to have been ignited at considerable elevation for them
>to be seen by the tower personnel.

This strongly suggests that the tower personnel who saw lights
did not see the flares. Apparantly March 13 was a 'UFO night'
when there were orbs (as well as the massive triangle) seen by
some people which were *not* the flares south-southwest of the
city. Unfortunately the emphasis on the videos has muddied the
waters because at least the Krzysten and Rairdon (and probably
the King- Hamilton) videos were flares (all these people were
looking toward the sighting line convergence of K and R.

>I'm sure the Air Force could do the simple math and determine
t>hat to get a plausible decoy off the ground that they would
>have to ignite a pattern or flares at sufficient altitude to
>give a clear view to the already shaken witnesses back in

That may be true. Or it may be that the MANG was doing it anyway
so the AF didn't have to react.

>The airfield that I fly out of was used in 1988 for an army war
>game. The idea was to capture the field. The only aircraft
>involved were a couple of P-3 Orions, called Auroras in Canada,
>which dropped flares over the field and the barrens to the east.

>That was the second time I had seen the LUU1 and 2 flares in


>Anyway the smoke trails were clearly evident while the flares
>dropped however, during an exercise over the Atlantic some years
>later, the flares dropped about 10 miles away were, as suggested
>by Bruce, over-masking blobs of light with no evident smoke
>trails. The flares themselves hid these or more likely the eye
>was overwhelmed by the pinpoint of brilliant light; like trying
>to see the car behind the headlights when they are shining right
>in your eyes.

Right on, regarding the flares at 10 (more more) miles. Cameras
and telescopes have the same problem as eyes: it is difficult or
impossible to see or resolve objects that are close to a very
bright light. (Astronomers are particularly aware of this when
trying to see planets.)

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