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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2008 > May > May 11

Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 22:22:54 -0400
Archived: Sun, 11 May 2008 07:44:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 14:59:52 -0300
>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 07:08:09 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:54:37 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

<snip>

>>>The flares burn with an output rated at up to 2 million
>>>candlepower. Can be seen at night for many tens of miles.

>>>The images in the 10:00pm videos do not show any smoke trails,
>>>but one wouldn't expect to see the light reflected from smoke
>>>from a great distance.

>>>Instead, the brightness of the flare would create an image that
>>essentially 'covers-up' any light from the smoke. (The image
>>actually recorded by the camera is many times larger than the
>>image would be if the camera optics were 'perfect'.

>>>Note that the image of a distant very bright light is much larger
>>>than the image of an equally distant' dim light. The image size
>>>increases with brightness.)

>>>The videos by Krzysten ("Krzysten arc") and C. Rairdon are
>>>particularly valuable for analysis because the lights are seen
>>>long enough to be able to prove that they drop downward and to
>>>the left, consistent with falling flares in an airmass that was
>>>moving west to east (right to left in the videos looking
>>>southward).

<snip>

>If memory serves it was nearly a couple of weeks [10 days?]
>before the AF copped to the training exercise.

The big sighting was March 13, 1997. It wasn't until June(?)
that the AF identified the "Snowbirds" (Maryland Air National
Guard; MANG) as the source of the flares that were ejected at
high altitude over the training range west of Tucson (south-
southwest of Phoenix)

>Also to clarify,
>I used the tower at Sky Harbour International AP as a measuring
>point to get distances from there to the restricted Military
>Operations Area. But Sky Harbour tower is about 11 miles south
>and slightly east of the city's center. That brings the 75 miles
i>nto play once more making the distance to the edge of to the
>closest SELLS MOA 65 miles.

>The personnel at that tower - field elevation 1,135 feet with
>the tower probably 100 feet higher than that - would have had
>their view of the AF flares blocked by South Mountain at a
>minimum of 2050 feet elevation with a tower sticking up a
>maximum of 1000 feet. Beyond that is the south end of the Sierra
>Estrella range at around 4,400 feet. Therefore the flares would
>have had to have been ignited at considerable elevation for them
>to be seen by the tower personnel.

This strongly suggests that the tower personnel who saw lights
did not see the flares. Apparantly March 13 was a 'UFO night'
when there were orbs (as well as the massive triangle) seen by
some people which were *not* the flares south-southwest of the
city. Unfortunately the emphasis on the videos has muddied the
waters because at least the Krzysten and Rairdon (and probably
the King- Hamilton) videos were flares (all these people were
looking toward the sighting line convergence of K and R.

>I'm sure the Air Force could do the simple math and determine
t>hat to get a plausible decoy off the ground that they would
>have to ignite a pattern or flares at sufficient altitude to
>give a clear view to the already shaken witnesses back in
>Phoenix.

That may be true. Or it may be that the MANG was doing it anyway
so the AF didn't have to react.

>The airfield that I fly out of was used in 1988 for an army war
>game. The idea was to capture the field. The only aircraft
>involved were a couple of P-3 Orions, called Auroras in Canada,
>which dropped flares over the field and the barrens to the east.

>That was the second time I had seen the LUU1 and 2 flares in
>use.

<snip>

>Anyway the smoke trails were clearly evident while the flares
>dropped however, during an exercise over the Atlantic some years
>later, the flares dropped about 10 miles away were, as suggested
>by Bruce, over-masking blobs of light with no evident smoke
>trails. The flares themselves hid these or more likely the eye
>was overwhelmed by the pinpoint of brilliant light; like trying
>to see the car behind the headlights when they are shining right
>in your eyes.

Right on, regarding the flares at 10 (more more) miles. Cameras
and telescopes have the same problem as eyes: it is difficult or
impossible to see or resolve objects that are close to a very
bright light. (Astronomers are particularly aware of this when
trying to see planets.)



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