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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2008 > May > May 6

Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 15:10:15 -0300
Archived: Tue, 06 May 2008 08:30:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 18:24:35 EDT
>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 14:28:04 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 18:32:02 EDT
>>>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals


>>>But I have a problem with the theory that the AF deliberately
>>>dropped the flares within 2 hours of the genuine UFO sightings
>>>from 75 miles away just to try to confuse people. I would doubt
>>>anyone in the AF would think the flares could even be seen from
>>>75 miles away or be prominent enough to be noticed. Wouldn't it
>>>have been easier to just fly a formation of A-10 aircraft
>>>directly over the the route of the UFO to try to confuse
>>>witnesses, maybe have them flash some high intensity lights
>>>along the way?


>>Getting an A-10 airborne with a few flares either already
>>installed or installing them would have been a lot faster.

>>The SELLS 1 MOA is the closest and comes within 21 statute miles
>>of the edge of Sky Harbor's Class C airspace which is 70 statute
>>miles in diameter - or 35 S miles plus 21 S miles for a total of
>>56 S miles from the edge of the SELLS MOA to the tower at Sky

>Well I have a highly reliable, technically expert witness who
>lives in Phoenix and saw a flare drop in Jan 1997, two months
>before the Phoenix Lights of March 13, 1997, and they were below
>the the local mountain ridge to the south, i.e., less than 20
>miles away. He said that the flares looked like they were
>snatched from midair before they could hit the ground.

>My point is that if the AF knew it could do a flare drop within
>20 miles of Phoenix, which would have been far more spectacular,
>why do a flare drop from 75 miles away when you wouldn't even be
>sure anyone could see them at all? Any flares dropped 75 miles
>away would fall below the top of the Estrella mountain range one
>the flares fell below about 14,000 ft and would then be
>invisible to Phoenix residents.

Note: Nautical miles on my SAChart have been converted to
statute miles in my remarks below.

The air guard could not do flare drops any closer than 55 miles
to the tower of Phoenix and only then to southwest because there
is the SELLS 1 MOA [R-2304 that has a boundry that close.
Elsewhere there is no MOA, at least on my chart close enough
where the AG could legally drop flares during a time NOTAMed for
them to do so. Just because there was no Class C airspace out
past 35 miles does not mean they could then drop flares. You are
still in civil airspace and it is still illegal.

Sprinkled through that strip betwen the MOA and the outer edge
of the Class C airspace are a half dozen private airstrips plus
the town of Gila Bend and its municipal airport, a few farms and
several protected mountain wilderness areas.

The 10PM flares were dropped from above to ignite at 25,000 feet
and they would have been dead by the time they got down to 14,000

Witness accounts of the earlier sightings and Symington's
statement of seeing the lights/object overhead and being huge
don't lend themselves to flares a minimum of 55 s-miles away and
at a depressed angle from Phoenix.

To avoid getting off the reservation while dropping these flares
in the curve pattern that is very apparent in the videos the air
guard would have likely had their pilot fly well inside the
perimeter, say an extra 10 miles, to avoid an accidental
overflight into civil airspace and/or perhaps to allow for drift
due to upper winds. There is always the possibility that he
would also have to be cautious if he dropped from 30 grand; the
flare canisters might have seen been carried in the jetstream to
the northeast before dropping safely into more stable air and
igniting at 25,000 feet.


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