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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2008 > May > May 4

Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 14:28:04 -0300
Archived: Sun, 04 May 2008 08:23:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 18:32:02 EDT
>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 04:40:43 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 09:27:59 -0700
>>>Subject: Shostaks's 'Phoenix Lights' With Rebuttals

>>>Greetings Listers,

>>>Seth Shostak offered up some penscript (at his blog) on the
>>>recent hoax in Phoenix, and to no surprise melded the events of
>>>March '97 into the piece.


>>The flares dropped at 10:00 pm are from a single aircraft, an A-
>>10 which dropped them, each preset - from the cockpit - to
>>ignite at 25,000 feet 75 miles away. Since flares are useless
>>for ground illumination above 1,500 feet AGL what was the point
>>of ignition at 25K?

>>My guess is a quick patch job for the folks in Phoenix 2 hours
>>plus past the main events. And I am not buying the foolishness
>>about getting rid or the flares at high altitude so they
>>wouldn't start brush fires in the desert and because they didn't
>>want to land the A-10 with flares on board - or put them back
>>into inventory.

>>They didn't have concerns earlier about dropping them into the

>>There is much to be said about full crockery re Seth's
>>ruminations. It's 4:40am and I'm going to bed.

>Hi Don,

>I don't know why Shostak would bother beating the tired dead
>horse. Doesn't he have better things to do with his time?

>But I have a problem with the theory that the AF deliberately
>dropped the flares within 2 hours of the genuine UFO sightings
>from 75 miles away just to try to confuse people. I would doubt
>anyone in the AF would think the flares could even be seen from
>75 miles away or be prominent enough to be noticed. Wouldn't it
>have been easier to just fly a formation of A-10 aircraft
>directly over the the route of the UFO to try to confuse
>witnesses, maybe have them flash some high intensity lights
>along the way?

Hi Brad,

Given a week or two to modify the A-10 Thunderbolts [Warthogs]
to carry some type of high intensity light[s] and testing the
aircraft to make sure the modifications didn't do something that
would kill the pilots and/or the people on the ground below
while figuring a way to make an A-10 silent; getting permission
to fly through Phoenix's Sky Harbor zone without transponders
and then convincing the controllers and tower operators to lie
and say it didn't happen and any other aircraft in the air as
well... I think this probably would have been do-able. But not
with only a couple of hours to prepare. You just can't bolt
stuff to, or modify an airplane and then fly it without testing.

*Example - bear with me. A USAF veteran mechanic-during the
Korean war-noted that on three of the F-86 Sabers he was
servicing that the two inchx 5/16ths inch bolts that attached to
the pushrods to the ailerons [wing control surfaces] had been
installed upside down [the bolt heads on the bottom] so he fixed
them putting the head on the top so that in case the lock-nuts
came off the bolt, the bolts would likely remain in place
through gravity.

The three jets were flown and then when pulling high G turns,
the ailerons were deflected for the turn the bit of bolt-thread
protruding through the nuts jammed against the wing's lower
surface due to lack of clearence. This only occurred while the
wing was slightly curved during the turn, not while sitting on
the ground.

All three F-86s crashed and two pilots were killed. The mechanic
was doing what he had been trained to do for 25 years while the
service notices on that model of F-86 warned that the bolt had
to be inverted on this aircraft. The mechanic's simple
modification had killed two pilots, destroyed three airplanes
and gave the mechanic nighmares for the rest of his life.

So first, where do you put these lights on the A-10; run the
cables, install switches, tie them into a power source on 6 or 7
or 8 Thunderbolts [to satifly the light configuration] and then
test it to make sure it doesn't interfer with something else and
do this in a couple of hours? Also how do you make an A-10 fly
that slow - it stalls at about 95 miles per hour-and keep it
quiet at the same time?

The videos I've seen of the earlier lights look low to me or
they were - once again-miles away from the viewer.

Getting an A-10 airborne with a few flares either already
installed or installing them would have been a lot faster.

The SELLS 1 MOA is the closest and comes within 21 statute miles
of the edge of Sky Harbor's Class C airspace which is 70 statute
miles in diameter - or 35 S miles plus 21 S miles for a total of
56 S miles from the edge of the SELLS MOA to the tower at Sky

Other than Bruce Maccabee's investigation of the flare drop at
10:00pm that evening little else has been done to document the
events of earlier that evening and meshing it with air traffic
control response or logs.

If we are to believe that this phenomenon began some hours
before the events of 7:30pm to 8:30pm then there was ample time
for the AF to have become aware. There's a chance that NORAD had
already been alerted since reports have some of these objects
coming in from the huge MOAs to the south and southwest of

If the Air Guard 'were' doing exercises earlier that night then
perhaps thay had reports of their own from either ground forces
or the pilots. There was plenty of time for damage control. The
flares could have been dropped as close as 60-65 miles south of

Note that Phoenix is the 8 or 9th busiest airport in the United
States. Flying USAF A-10s illegally into Sky Harbor's airspace
would have been especially dangerous.

I'll stick with my theory.

Hope this answers your question Brad.

Don Ledger

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