From: Nick Redfern <nick.redfern.nul>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:29:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:51:16 -0400
Subject: Re: More Questions On 'Body Snatchers' - Redfern


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:38:04 +0200
>Subject: Re: More Questions On 'Body Snatchers'

>>Okay, Gildas, please tell me who you think is credible in terms
>>of making _specific_ claims about seeing  _alien_ bodies at
>>Roswell?

>Nick,

>I am primarily thinking of the debris witnesses, you must be
>aware of that, but now you want me to talk about the more
>fragile area of witnesses for the alien bodies.

Gildas

Interesting that after criticizing me for believing testimony
about Japanese bodies found in New Mexico, you yourself admit
that the evidence for alien bodies is "fragile".

>My first reaction is not to enter in such a discussion with you,
>because you are subtly changing the subject, from your Body
>Snatchers story to the real Roswell case.

This is a totally outrageous comment! And I am sure the List
will see it for that. I am _not_ changing the subject - subtly
or otherwise.

You have asked me numerous questions since the book was
published on 21 June, and I have tried to answer them to the
best of my ability and with patience.

I have shown that people at NEPA such as Gasser knew about pre-
1949 UFO research in the US to try and build these things and
that he made the atomic connection.

I have also _documented_ that the Armed Forces Special Weapons
Project were "snatching bodies", as late as the mid-1950s, from
a Formosa hospital.

I have also shown that Dr Lincoln La Paz - involved in late 40s
UFO-related investigations in New Mexico - was doing secret
research into Japanese Balloon Bombs in the War.

I have also commented on the fact - thanks to Jean Pierre
Pharabod bringing it to light - that there is testimony that
some of the bodies looked "Chinese" at one site.

I have also shown that in 1947 the FBI was drawing parallels
between disc investigations and wartime Fugo Balloon
investigations.

I have also shown that the Japanese planned to attack the US
with huge balloons manned by "death defying Japanese".

But you still believe that the bodies are alien. Which is fine.
I actually have no problem with you coming to that conclusion.

But if you ask me why I hold my beliefs and I take the time to
patiently answer your questions and respond to your
observations, I feel that I am entitled to ask you why you think
that the theory I present is invalid.

To me that is not an unreasonable request considering the length
of some of my replies to your points and questions. And what do
you say in response to my questions about alien bodies?

I'll tell you what you say: you admit the evidence is "fragile."
Then you say I am changing the subject - I'm not. I'm asking a
reasonable question as to why you believe in the UFO angle and
dismiss mine, and you respond by saying that you won't enter
into an "endless debate".

I don't want an "endless debate". All I want from you is a list
of credible people at Roswell who have stated that they saw
alien bodies.

Not "little men". Not "strange-looking men". Not "creatures".
But Aliens, ETs. As I said, all of the other descriptions are
open to debate and could actually be used to support the
testimony of my sources.

Given the amount of questions you've asked me, and the number of
points you have raised and that I have patiently answered, my
request is not at all unreasonable.

But you won't answer it.

In fact, your lack of reply on the question of credible data re
the alien body angle of Roswell says more - ironically - than if
you _had_ replied to it.

>Again, as a closing note from me, if the Air Force officers of
>Roswell had found a Japanese crew on board a kind of secret
>plane, they would not have believed that they were Martians, and
>they would not have issued their famous press release.

Who is saying anything about Martians??? You continually make
the mistake of interpreting "Flying Disc" as alien spaceship.

Gildas, You have _got_ to try and get into the minds of the
people back then and understand what "Flying Disc" meant to them
in the summer of 1947. Not what it means or implies to us today.

An examination of a wealth of FOIA documents shows that the
military's first thought was that these were a secret weapon
(either of the US or a foreign power - FBI documents of the time
discuss this a lot, see page 154 of Body Snatchers).

Even the FBI were drawing parallels with the Fugo Balloon
investigations in terms of the way in which the discs were being
investigated.

So, there was no mindset at the time of the crash that Flying
Discs _were_ alien. But it _does_ create that exact mindset with
you, because 60 years on we equate Flying Discs with UFOs and
aliens. Back then they thought it was secret weapons.

So by definition, they thought they were possibly recovering a
secret weapon - which ironically they were. The Roswell people
just weren't cleared to know what was happening elsewhere in NM
and didn't know it was "one of ours." Until they were told (by
which time the press release had been authorized and was out
there), and then came the "It's just a weather balloon"
explanation.

And then later the military began to realize the way in which
the UFO subject could be carefully manipulated and used in
similar scenarios.

Nick R

(_Still_ patiently answering your questions even though you
won't debate perhaps the most important issue of all - data in
support of the theory that alien bodies were recovered from the
NM desert in July 1947).