From: Nick Redfern <nick.redfern.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:29:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:51:16 -0400 Subject: Re: More Questions On 'Body Snatchers' - Redfern >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:38:04 +0200 >Subject: Re: More Questions On 'Body Snatchers' >>Okay, Gildas, please tell me who you think is credible in terms >>of making _specific_ claims about seeing _alien_ bodies at >>Roswell? >Nick, >I am primarily thinking of the debris witnesses, you must be >aware of that, but now you want me to talk about the more >fragile area of witnesses for the alien bodies. Gildas Interesting that after criticizing me for believing testimony about Japanese bodies found in New Mexico, you yourself admit that the evidence for alien bodies is "fragile". >My first reaction is not to enter in such a discussion with you, >because you are subtly changing the subject, from your Body >Snatchers story to the real Roswell case. This is a totally outrageous comment! And I am sure the List will see it for that. I am _not_ changing the subject - subtly or otherwise. You have asked me numerous questions since the book was published on 21 June, and I have tried to answer them to the best of my ability and with patience. I have shown that people at NEPA such as Gasser knew about pre- 1949 UFO research in the US to try and build these things and that he made the atomic connection. I have also _documented_ that the Armed Forces Special Weapons Project were "snatching bodies", as late as the mid-1950s, from a Formosa hospital. I have also shown that Dr Lincoln La Paz - involved in late 40s UFO-related investigations in New Mexico - was doing secret research into Japanese Balloon Bombs in the War. I have also commented on the fact - thanks to Jean Pierre Pharabod bringing it to light - that there is testimony that some of the bodies looked "Chinese" at one site. I have also shown that in 1947 the FBI was drawing parallels between disc investigations and wartime Fugo Balloon investigations. I have also shown that the Japanese planned to attack the US with huge balloons manned by "death defying Japanese". But you still believe that the bodies are alien. Which is fine. I actually have no problem with you coming to that conclusion. But if you ask me why I hold my beliefs and I take the time to patiently answer your questions and respond to your observations, I feel that I am entitled to ask you why you think that the theory I present is invalid. To me that is not an unreasonable request considering the length of some of my replies to your points and questions. And what do you say in response to my questions about alien bodies? I'll tell you what you say: you admit the evidence is "fragile." Then you say I am changing the subject - I'm not. I'm asking a reasonable question as to why you believe in the UFO angle and dismiss mine, and you respond by saying that you won't enter into an "endless debate". I don't want an "endless debate". All I want from you is a list of credible people at Roswell who have stated that they saw alien bodies. Not "little men". Not "strange-looking men". Not "creatures". But Aliens, ETs. As I said, all of the other descriptions are open to debate and could actually be used to support the testimony of my sources. Given the amount of questions you've asked me, and the number of points you have raised and that I have patiently answered, my request is not at all unreasonable. But you won't answer it. In fact, your lack of reply on the question of credible data re the alien body angle of Roswell says more - ironically - than if you _had_ replied to it. >Again, as a closing note from me, if the Air Force officers of >Roswell had found a Japanese crew on board a kind of secret >plane, they would not have believed that they were Martians, and >they would not have issued their famous press release. Who is saying anything about Martians??? You continually make the mistake of interpreting "Flying Disc" as alien spaceship. Gildas, You have _got_ to try and get into the minds of the people back then and understand what "Flying Disc" meant to them in the summer of 1947. Not what it means or implies to us today. An examination of a wealth of FOIA documents shows that the military's first thought was that these were a secret weapon (either of the US or a foreign power - FBI documents of the time discuss this a lot, see page 154 of Body Snatchers). Even the FBI were drawing parallels with the Fugo Balloon investigations in terms of the way in which the discs were being investigated. So, there was no mindset at the time of the crash that Flying Discs _were_ alien. But it _does_ create that exact mindset with you, because 60 years on we equate Flying Discs with UFOs and aliens. Back then they thought it was secret weapons. So by definition, they thought they were possibly recovering a secret weapon - which ironically they were. The Roswell people just weren't cleared to know what was happening elsewhere in NM and didn't know it was "one of ours." Until they were told (by which time the press release had been authorized and was out there), and then came the "It's just a weather balloon" explanation. And then later the military began to realize the way in which the UFO subject could be carefully manipulated and used in similar scenarios. Nick R (_Still_ patiently answering your questions even though you won't debate perhaps the most important issue of all - data in support of the theory that alien bodies were recovered from the NM desert in July 1947).
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