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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2004 > Feb > Feb 2

Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:54:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:10:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert

>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:10 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:46:47 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Hello Amy, All,

>Here we go again....you wrote:

>>Although I see no evidence the photograph in question has been
>>faked, I did find various inconsistencies in your example.

>Let me see if I get this straight, you don't see any evidence of
>fakery in the Whittlesea photo but _I_ am faking my
>illustrations. Am I reading you correctly?

No, inconsistencies between the location of the light source in
an illustration and the location of the light source (and
resulting shadows) in the original image is not "faking" it,
it's just not paying attention to detail or ignoring it.

>I'm not even going to dignify that lame accusation with a
>response. I will however accept your 'amateur' opinion (for what
>it's worth) that you don't find any evidence of fakery in the
>Whittlesea photo.

Put your evidence where your claims are, John. Show me where the
sun was in your illustration compared to the location of the sun
in the Whittlesea UFO photograph and where it would have been at
approximately 2:00pm on the day the photograph was taken.

>>In reproducing your 3D model of the Whittlesea UFO using my own
>>Bryce 5 (I use Bryce 5, Poser, Adobe, Paint Shop Pro 8 and
>>numerous other programs to create 3D graphics for my research
>>and the book I am writing),

>Wow! Writing a 'book' eh? I'll bet getting some attention so
>people will want to read it is an important activity eh?

Since the book I am writing has nothing to do with the topic at
hand, this conversation is actually more of a distraction than a
bid for attention eh?

>BTW, I'm impressed with all the software you own. I have 'oodles
>of software too.' I spent two years of my life (full-time) in
>computer labs at Long Island University learning how to use it
>all. Where did you go to learn to use yours?

Oh, I just read the book and tutorials (they come with the
software these days). I spent my time (6 years) at the
university earning two degrees and learning scientific
methodology. Not that two years in a computer lab isn't worth
something. It's just not enough to get your foot in the door.

>>I discovered, quite by accident,
>>that the sun could not have been in the position you claim it
>>was in.

>That must have been some accident, Amy. Without having seen the
>mesh from my original to know precisely 'where' in the 3D
>space/environment I placed the object I created and the light
>source in the scene, you have determined that the sun was not in
>the position I "claim" it was in.

>And you were able to determine that by randomly placing objects
>'in your 3D space and assuming that it is identical to where I
>placed mine. You missed your calling; ufology is a waste of your
>talents, should be working for the psychic hotline!

Thank you, John!

However, nothing psychic about what I did. I simply put your
claims to the test by attempting to replicate the procedures you
described to see if I could achieve the same results (scientists
do this all the time to test various theories and claims made by

Unfortunately, the experiment I conducted did not produce the
same results as outlined by your procedures. Furthermore, my
analysis of the Whittlesea UFO photograph indicates the sun was
above, to the right and _behind_ the objects in the foreground
not above, to the right and _in front_ or just over and behind
the photographer's right shoulder as you claim.

In order for the sun to be in the position reflected by your
model of the "domed disc", it would have had to have been much
lower in the sky than it was at 2:00pm and in front of your
"flying saucer" - which does not correlate with the position of
the sun in the Whittlesea UFO photograph. Your rendition of the
'classic' flying saucer you see in the Whittlesea photo is not
accurate regardless of 'where' you placed your mesh or any other
objects in your 3D "space/environment" simply because you cannot
have the sun reflecting off the front of the object (UFO) and
behind the objects in the foreground at the same time.

It does not take a rocket scientist or a Bryce 'expert' to see
that the reflection of the sun on your "domed disc" is not
consistent with the shadows and position of the sun in the
Whittlesea UFO photograph.


>>We will probably never know what the Whittlesea UFO really was.

>Sadly, no, we will probably never know the truth about the
>Whittlesea photo. Thanks to *amateurs with an Internet soapbox
>we can all look forward to having ever more obstacles to

Don't be so hard on yourself, John. ;>

>When this List first started it was closed to all save people
>who had a 'legitimate' connection to the phenomenon. ie;
>research people, investigators, their witnesses etc. Don't get
>me wrong, I love the richness that the influx of voices, ideas,
>and theories that manifested when EBK opened the List to the
>public. It's just that in order to gain the benefits of an 'open
>List', the price paid was an increase in static noise from
>'armchair' amateurs with Internet access, some software, a book
>to sell, a website to promote and two cents worth of very
>personal theories and opinions.

>So far the diversity gained has been worth the price. I just
>pine for the old days from time to time is all. ;)

Me, too, John, me too. But diversity is, afterall, the spice of life. ;}

Thank you, Errol, for knowing what's best for the List and for
providing this wonderful forum!


A. Hebert

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