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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Nov > Nov 25

Re: Abductions & Ufology

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:48:05 -0500
Archived: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:58:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Abductions & Ufology

>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:52:04 -0700
>Subject: Re: Abductions & Ufology

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:55:33 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Abductions & Ufology

>>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:49:52 -0700
>>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Subject: Subject: Re: Abductions & Ufology

>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:53:49 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: Abductions & Ufology

>>>>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs.nul>
>>>>>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates.nul>
>>>>>Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:54:13 -0700
>>>>>Subject: Re: Abductions & Ufology


>>Oh man, (or 'woman' as the case may be) I can't begin to tell
>>you how disappointing and disheartening it is for me to hear
>>you all talking this way. I respect it and I can even understand
>>'why' you all think/feel this way about the abduction reports.

>>You three in particular, Jan, Wendy, Jim, all represent (to me)
>>among the 'best' there is in ufology. You are all clear, honest
>>thinkers who offer a solid approach to the subject. (UFOs) It
>>just takes all the wind out of my sails to watch you
>>collectively throwing your hands up in the air in frustration
>>over the abduction material.

Hi Wendy,

You wrote:

>I do believe that the abduction scenario is a part of Ufology
>and that it needs to be researched and studied. My only
>deviation from this are the points that I don't believe the
>abduction scenario is the core element of Ufology. It is being
>made to appear so and I disagree with that assessment.

By whom, Wendy? Spielberg? The Sci-Fi Channel? Other than those
two, I don't recall there being any recent efforts being made by
anyone in ufology to make the abduction phenomenon 'appear to be
the core element in ufology.'

Please don't tell me that all the hype surrounding Taken is what
is making veteran ufologists nervous. I'll be dipped in dung and
rolled in peanuts if that's true. (!)

>that the abduction researchers haven't shown a baseline of thier
>research and investigations, which have gotten way out of hand
>in many ways. I cannot speak for Jan, but these are the reasons
>that I am frustrated by the abduction scenario as it is
>currently being presented.

And 'who' do you think will be the person or persons to do
something about that situation? I suppose if we wait long enough
'somebody' will come along and take on the job. It just seems to
me that, that is precisely what everyone is doing... waiting for
someone else to do it.

Once again, the only ones that get left out in the cold are the
witnesses/abductees. I am going to reprint the comment I made in
my last post.

Stating the problem, is not the 'problem'. We _all_ know what's
wrong. Finding someone willing to brainstorm sound solutions and
to do the work of implementing them is the 'problem'.

I wrote:

>>I was waiting and hoping for some 'fresh blood' to enter the
>>fray. To bring better methodology and a less 'carved in stone'
>>mind-set to the problem than we get from Hopkins, Mack, Jacobs
>>et al.

>>A 'monopoly' like that, in any field of investigation, almost
>>insures that 'dogma' will rear its ugly little head. It's what
>>we have now. There's the 'Hopkins camp' the 'Mack camp' etc.
>>with little input from anybody else in the field. There is no
>>one else who shares an equal foothold in the public arena with
>>them who is challenging them or putting their findings to the

It's ok if _you_ don't want to be the one to take on the job. I
suppose we will all (the witnesses/abductees) just have to wait
(as we have been) for 'someone' to pick up the baton. It is not
our place to initiate or participate such a thing. That job
falls to those who do the research. The only responsibility we
have is to provide whatever evidence we can that will help
researchers decide if the case merits further investigation. To
help _substantiate_ our reports in any way we can. To make
ourselves available. Period.

Deciding what criteria will be used to define those cases is up
to trained/skilled research people. Not the subjects.

>From a practical standpoint I believe that too much is expected,
>both from the research standpoint and the position of the
>abductees, in what can be accomplished to bring the matter to
>resolution at this point in time.

How much has been tried? Did I miss something?

I agree with your basic statement that to date, very little if
anything at all has been 'accomplished.' But that is due to the
fact that little, if anything, has been done at all. But _not_
that it is a "Mission Impossible" to do such a task.

I think you have given up too easily. Maybe I'm being naive but
I believe that something of value, something tangible, can be
accomplished in relation to the abduction phenomenon - through
research. That's not going to happen if people like Jan and
yourself bow out in frustration.

>Just the fact that discussions
>revolve around alien hybridization, Raelian vs whatever
>conflicts and the like, suggest to me that the abduction
>scenario research has jumped track and running amuck.

Of course the ratio of signal to noise is high. During the last
ten years the Internet has put a bullhorn into the hands of
every wahoo with a computer and an e-mail account. All that
means is, there is an acute need to define what it is that
constitutes a UFO abduction case. Therefore eliminating at least
a half to three-quarters of the static noise in one fell swoop.

You surprise me Wendy. Instead of calling for a set of criteria
to be created that will help to 'define' just what constitutes a
UFO abduction case, you proffer your opinion that abduction
research has "jumped the track and run amok." Like I said, we
can all pretty much agree on what the 'problems' are.

How about becoming a part of the solution by challenging your
peers to create, and agree upon, a generally accepted definition
of what constitutes a 'UFO abduction' case? Attempts have
already been made by people like Stuart Appelle and Dick Hall.
They have both written papers filled with suggestions to help
deal with abduction cases in a practical way. Ones that utilize
sound methodology in tandem with an open-minded approach. Why
does all the groundwork that has already been laid continue to
collect dust on a shelf?

Wendy, if I could, I would _do-it-myself_ without making a big
fuss about it. I can't. As a witness/experiencer of the
phenomena it is not my (proper) place to involve myself in the
establishment of a set of criteria that helps to define
something that is affecting me personally/directly. Objectivity
problems, conflict of interest and all that. I had always held
out some hope that White Hat wearing good guys like yourself,
Jan and others would 'one day' collectively take on the job of
helping to create solutions to the problems we are all,
witnesses and researchers alike, so painfully aware of.

'Sounds like' that ain't gonna happen.

>It has
>lost focus and therefore is causing the frustration that Jan, I
>and others are experiencing.

"People" lose focus - not 'things.'

>That doesn't mean that I have lost
>interest in the abduction scenario or turned my back on
>abduction research. As a metaphor, It just means that I think a
>few trains in the rail yard have derailed, causing chaos. That
>chaos needs to be rechanneled and research put back on track.

Then grab a crowbar and let me you hear you grunt as you help to
push the derailed train back onto the tracks. :)

"If you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the

*I 'think' that quote is attributable to: Huey Newton, Black
Panther Party

Warm regards,

John Velez

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