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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Nov > Nov 24

Re: Roswell Had Victims?

From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:36:54 EST
Archived: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:51:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Roswell Had Victims?

>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:49:45 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:02:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Roswell Had Victims? - Kaeser

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 02:10:35 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Roswell Hhad Victims?


>>The only one of these matches that makes any possible
>>sense in the context of a military telegram and Roswell is
>>the word "VICTIMS". That is, unless you want to believe
>>that Ramey was somehow dealing with a crisis in the
>>capital of Lithuania (VILNIUS), or was dealing with
>>something involving glass-making (VITRICS), or was
>>involved somehow with the bacteria that causes cholera
>>(VIBRIOS), or something lining the guts (VILLI'S), or
>>maybe music (VIOLINS), or sex (VIRGINS). [VILLI'S is also
>>the wrong part of speech given the grammatical context.]

>>The point of this illustration is that the possible
>>choices for a word are not infinite and interpreting this
>>message isn't an exercise equivalent to "seeing faces in
>>the clouds." Use of various forms of context weeds out a
>>vast majority of possible word matches in most cases.


>Let me start out by stating that many of us appreciate your
>hard work in this arena. It takes a certain kind of person
>to get involved in this and make themselves a target for
>criticism from all directions, and IMO you've raised
>important issues that need to be addressed (or at least
>taken into account).

>That being said, I believe that many of the letter
>interpretations of the Ramey Memo are, indeed, like "seeing
>faces in the clouds", and as long as UFO researchers perform
>the interpretation there will be criticism of the effort.

>A number of people have suggested a more independent (and
>hopefully scientific) approach to interpretation, with this
>effort performed by individuals not connected to the genre
>in any way. I believe that Kevin has outlined one good
>investigation scenario, and I know this has been the subject
>of discussion by the FUND and CUFOS.

>Whether this will take place in the near future is still up
>in the air, with funding needed to pursue this effort.


Steve -

While Kevin's suggestion of further investigations is a good one
(as always), I am puzzled by a couple of items in your post:

1. I take it you are suggesting that a more "scientific"
approach be taken to interpreting the words and meaning of the
Ramey memo. What specifically would need to be done to make the
interpretation more scientific?

2. You suggest independent interpretations by people "not
connected with the genre". Why would this yield better results
than those already obtained by Rudiak?

I'm approaching the 2nd question from the following perspective:
If my doctor's handwriting is difficult to read (and I assure
you, it is), who would be some of the people who could render a
reasonably accurate interpretation of my prescription written by
him? Choose all that apply:

A. My local pharmacist who has my prescription history on
B. Any practising pharmacist in this country.
C. A doctor from the same clinic as my doctor.
D. Any doctor specializing in Internal Medicine (same as my
E. Any practising doctor in this country.
F. An expert in Latin.
G. An expert in English.
H. A handwriting expert.
I. A current member of the Army or Air Force, familiar with
   current military jargon and terminology.
J. A member of the Army Air Force in 1947, familiar with
   1947 military jargon and terminology.
K. Anyone who has served in the military.
L. A Ufologist who has studied the Roswell Incident in
   depth, and is familiar with 1947 usage of the word
   "disc", terms such as "B29-ST", maps of the area, etc.
M. Any Ufologist.

For the best interpretations of my prescription, I would
probably not choose letters F through M, except as a last
resort. Similarly, to interpret the letters and words in Ramey's
memo, I would use a combination of computer enhancement, good
vision, a computerized word tool (for word possibilities),
familiarity with the Roswell case, familiarity with 1947 word
usage from newspaper articles and military memos, maps of the
area, some knowledge of teletype fonts, etc, etc. I would not
enlist the services of my local pharmacist to read and interpret
the Ramey memo, except as a last resort.

Let's also keep in mind that any "faces in the clouds" in
Rudiak's work are only single letters. There are some unclear
(and unknown) letters which are clearly labeled as such, and
there are some word choices based on the clear letters. A "face"
is more complicated than a letter of the alphabet, and is more
like a word or a sentence. Rudiak has not whimsically gone off
into Disneyland and assigned words or sentences to smeared
blotches. He's analyzed every character individually, and the
assemblage has resulted in words with a fairly high level of

For the analogy to work with clouds, he would be analyzing every
facet of a cloud, looking for a left eye, a right eye, a left
ear, a right ear, a nose, lips, a chin, a forehead, eyebrows,
then viewing the jigsaw puzzle and stating "there's a probable
face of Abe Lincoln in that cloud" (not just any old generic
face). For the process to be analagous to Rudiak's, it would
need to be repeated many times, with multiple clouds
(convincingly, of course), and a coherent set of faces would
need to emerge, such as a series of faces representing the first
30 US Presidents, or a phonetic alphabet, or people whose names
started with the letter "A", etc. Such a process would be
unbelievably absurd and virtually impossible.

For the word "Victims", 7 components (characters) are required
to spell-out the entire word, Rudiak had confidence in only 4
letters (57% of the letters in the word), and the grand total of
the number of words which fit those 4 letters was 7 words in the
English language, including 1 foreign capital. It all sounds
scientific to me, and about as far away from finding faces in
clouds as one can get...

Dave Morton

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