UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Nov > Nov 13

Re: Disclosure Witnesses & Credibility

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:44:57 EST
Archived: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:50:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Disclosure Witnesses & Credibility


>From: Edward Case <sloweddy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 03:10:50 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Disclosure Witnesses & Credibility


>[Non-Subscriber Post--ebk]

>From: Edward Case
>For:Submission to the UFO Mailing List

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:34:44 -0400
>>Subject: Disclosure Witnesses & Credibility

>>I've noted much about Dr. Greer on this and other Lists. Most
>>agree that Greer himself leaves something to be desired where
>>credibility is concerned. However what concerns me is the
>>possibility that the baby might be being thrown out with the
>>bathwater.

>>What is the concensus on this List regarding the quality of the
>>disclosures by those witnesses that appeared during Greer's
>>Disclosure Project?

>>Has anyone broken down the presenters into groups as to the
>>credibility of their disclosures?

>>Is there a list of these presenters and their topics, somewhere?



>Dear Don,

>You have raised a very important point.  I think it is critical
>that people who are interested in the truth about UFOs take a
>good look at the credibility of the Disclosure Project
>witnesses. Some of them may be unreliable - but the most
>important question is: "are any of them telliing the truth, and
>if so, who?".

I always hesitate to enter into these discussions because of the
hate email that always seems to follow, but these issues are
important and if we are ever going to get to the bottom of the
issue, then a house cleaning is in order.

So the question to me is: "If some of the disclosure witnesses
are unreliable, why should we accept anything that comes from
the project?"

That means, if Dr. Greer couldn't be bothered with verifying
these tales, why should we even listen?

>In response to your request I have posted a copy of a DP
>witness list and a url for the website that I got it from.

>Overall I have been very impressed with the high caliber of
>people and content at this list - but when I read the post's on
>this list about Dr. Greer, I was dissappointed. The responses
>were mostly negative and seemed to miss the most critical
>point. By focusing on his possible shortcomings - people were
>downplaying the importance of the Disclosure Project witness
>testimony, and the National Press Club conference in May 2001.

Or maybe by concentrating on the negative we hoped to have the
lists revised with the names of those who couldn't be trusted
and whose testimony is unreliable removed. To date Dr. Greer has
shown no desire to update the lists, removing those who have
been proven to be unreliable, even after he was informed of
investigative results.

>I have heard Dr. Greer speak, spoken to him briefly and have
>read much about him and by him.  There does seem to be ample
>evidence that Dr. Greer has used bad judgement at times
>(especially in regards to copyright issues) and that he may be
>off track with some of his beliefs about the UFO phenomena.

But doesn't those copyright issues speak to character and isn't
character of importance here. We have only so much in the way of
physical evidence so that the character issue becomes more
important. Here, Dr. Greer has failed...

>Everyone has shortcomings though and it is possible that some of

>his more controversial beliefs may be turn out to be true. I
>thought that Richard Dolan's article about Dr. Greer was a very
>balanced and well written piece. I can find the URL for it if
>any listerians are interested.

Yes, everyone has shortcomings... but many of us attempt to
overcome those. We try to listen to others, hear what they say,
and make changes based on the best evidence. Dr. Greer talks
right over you and then offers lame excuses about these
shortcomings.

And, no, I don't believe there was a battle between aliens and
American military police in Colorado... just one of the more
outrageous claims.

>The Disclosure Project book has testimony transcripts. I think
>it is really worthwhile to view the videotaped testimonies and
>read the transcripts also.

And what good are transcripts when the person is not telling the
truth... and what good are they when edited?

<snip>

I've snipped the witness lists because we've seen it before. I
will point out that Larry Warren was not an Aif Force Security
Officer, but was, in fact, a low ranking member of the security
force whose total military service was eight months...

Cliff Stone now claims to have participated in some fashion in
every major UFO event, even those that took place before he was
born. His military record, while undistinguished, is certainly
commendable. He spent twenty-two years in the Army serving the
United States, but contrary to what he has said, he was trained
as a clerk and every assignment in his record was as a clerk,
admin specialist or as an admin supervisor. He has no
specialized training and no evidence of his many fantastic
claims...

Dr. Robert Wood, while a well respected engineer, only
contributes his opinion on MJ-12... many of the documents he has
are clearly fakes and others are retyped versions of authentic
documents. Discussion of MJ-12 just confuses the issue...

Glenn Dennis' tale of the missing nurse has been seriously
compromised by the failure to find Naomi Self  (or Selff), and
his admission that he had invented the name. There is no
corroboration for this story...

Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso couldn't even be honest about
his own rank in the Army. His tale of how he saw the alien
bodies is completely bogus and other evidence about his
"insider" knowledge is going to surface in the next few days
(sorry about this, but check the CUFOS website after November
22.)...

And would someone tell Dr. Greer that Walter Haut was in the
Army and not the Navy...

It is clear to me that Dr. Greer grabbed everyone who has a tale
to tell and thrown them into the public arena. The details about
many of these witnesses appear on the Internet, and had Dr.
Greer asked, I would have been happy to supply both my opinions
and the evidence. While opinions might not matter, evidence
does... at least to some of us.


KRandle


[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp


Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com