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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Nov > Nov 12

Re: Cosmic Top Secret

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:32:15 -0500
Archived: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:20:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:47:50 -0400
>Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret

>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:41:59 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret

>>>>From: Anthony Cipoletta <cipey.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Subject: Cosmic Top Secret
>>>>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:04:44 -0500

>>>3. The GAO, in its search for Roswell related documents, noted
>>>on page 80 of their 400+ page overview background package that
>>>they had noted documents classified TOP SECRET RESTRICTED even
>>>though they had been told (Majestic 12) that no such designation
>>>was in use at the time (1954).

>>No, this is incorrect. I believe you are talking about
>>Restricted Data and Formerly Restricted Data both of which refer
>>to nuclear related information. Again, I would like to see such
>>a document that can be independently obtained from an archives.

>Sorry Jan. What I said was quite correct. I am very familiar
>with Secret Restricted data as I wrote many such documents. As I
>noted in my MUFON 2000 paper, , the exact quote is "Date:
>December 7, 1994, Ms. Laura Jackson and I reviewed records
>pertaining to the Air Forces atomic energy projects and certain
>mission and weapons requirements. These files were Calssified up
>to and including top secret. The period covered by these records
>was from 1948 to 1956. There was no mention of the Roswell
>Incident. No information pertaining to the assignment was
>obtained. In several instances we noticed the classification Top
>Secret Restricted, used on several documents. This is mentioned
>because in past references to this clas sification (Majestic 12)
>we were told that it was not used during this period."

>I spoke with the 3 GAO people involved. They could not make
>copies of these documents because they were still classified.
>Furthermore as I had noted in my paper I had earlier found a
>number of Confidential Resricted and Secret Restricted
>documents. No these were not SRD or CRD.

>Please notice the term several. They did not say loads of or a
>great many, but several .

>>>I had also noted, in Archives, documents classified as SECRET
>>>RESTRICTED and CONFIDENTIAL RESTRICTED..... When I worked on
>>>classified programs relating to nuclear activities, one very
>>>frequently saw SECRET RESTRICTED DATA and CONFIDENTIAL
>>>RESTRICTED DATA on classified documents.

>>Again, I don't think you saw Secret Restrict, but rather Secret
>>Restricted Data (SRD)

>Wrong again. Why do you think so??? Can you not read what I
>said? They were SR and CR NOT SRD or CRD. Whether we expect it
>or like it or not,that is what they were. As noted above I was
>very familiar with SRD and CRD documents.

>>The GOA Roswell investigators were cleared for access to nuclear
>>weapons data and could see Top Secret Restricted Data.

>Of course, but these documents were NOT SRD or CRD or TSRD

>>One problem in researching at archives is that documents
>>containing Restricted Data must be reviewed by the Energy
>>Department for release in addition to the originating agency. A
>>real problem when nuclear capable units of, say the Air Force,
>>are involved.

>>>In addition I required a Q clearance which was normally thought
>>>of as being somewhere between SECRET and TOP SECRET.

>>This is completely false. A Q clearance was necessary for access
>>to nuclear data. It is not between anything.

>This has been discussed here before. The Q gave me access to non
>nuclear data as well. some of it at TOP SECRET level. in certain
>circumstances when I had a need to know.

>>Security manuals are readily available to researchers so
>>mis-statement like this could easily be avoided with a little
>>reading.

>Jan, you make it sound like every installation follows the same
>set of rules. They don't all follow the same rules. Some
>documents have unusual classifications. Check out page 80 of the
>big GAO equivalent to FOI volume re Roswell. I suppose I could
>dig out some of the SR and CR documents. I believe I mentioned
>this in my 1990 Final Report on Operation Majestic 12.

>Absence of evidence in your hands is not evidence of absence.
>Proclamation is not the same as investigation.

>Yes, a little reading would be a good idea. You remind me of Ed
>Stewart proclaiming that all TS documents had TS control numbers
>on them. FALSE. He also proclaimed that all the documents in RG
>341 were TS and all had TS control numbers. FALSE. Yes, a little
>reading would have helped him as well.


First I don't wish to repeat debates that have been carried on
this List over and over again, in which the necessary
information to make an informed judgement has been given. In six
months or a year it is just like re-setting a video game the
whole debate starts off from zero again. It is my intention to
place a webpage on the Project 1947 site so people who want to
educate themselves on security matters may do and have
referenced information available. Unfortunately, ufologists are
not well informed in this area, and fall for baloney pedaled in
books, on the Internet and conferences over and over again.

However to comment here briefly. The GOA reference above appears
concerning 'Top Secret Restricted'. Appears to me to be a typo.
After an extensive web search with over 550 hits, I find that
any place that Top Secret Restricted, Secret Restricted or
Confidential Restricted occur other than in relation to MJ-12
documents. Other hits refers to Restricted Data which, of
course, is nuclear data covered under the Atomic Energy Act. I
have also consulted with three, more knowledgeable individuals
than myself in these matters, and they also doubt that such
things existed in 1954. Several hits during my web search also
concerned people whose job was safeguarding classified
information and their comments are similar to mine.

Since others have claimed to have seen formerly Top Secret
Restricted, Secret Restricted or Confidential Restricted
documents in the Archives that do not reference Nuclear Weapons
"Restricted Data" or "Formerly Restricted Data," here is my
challenge, and this should be quite simple fulfill, the first
person who provides me with a copy of such a document, I will
donate $100 US to their favorite charity in their name. I will
be happy to announce the results here if I am proved wrong!
(Also, the one document that I have been shown before to prove
this claim is a confidential document on FUGO balloons that was
downgraded to Restricted. The Restricted classification as part
of the US security classification scheme was deleted in 1953 by
Executive Order 10501.)

About five or six years ago when all these rather silly debates
about Top Secret Control Numbers and COSMIC Top Secret started
on this List there were no places people could go on the web for
references to actual security procedures and policies. Today
there is plenty of information concerning what is and is not
required on classified documents that can be easily verified by
interested parties.

Once again on the Q-clearance, it is not between anything. It is
an additional requirement by the Atomic Energy Act for access to
nuclear weapons data. Q-clearances allows the holder potentially
to see Secret and Top Secret nuclear data. The holder also
potentially may see Secret and Top Secret non-nuclear data. The
key here is 'potentially', the facility head or Security Manager
is required to publish a list in which the access level of
classified information is stated. The same is true within
Special Access Program. The access to material is defined and
delimited.

Some of this is rather arcane. However, there are three
components in the process to seeing classified data. The level
of investigation, the level of clearance granted by the
clearance authority and the access allowed by the local facility
or in the military's case, the command.

Until 1955, the military had to have Q or L clearances to see
nuclear data, but after that a system that evolved into the
current Personnel Reliability Program (PRP) started.

The PRPs I was involved with required that individual selected
for the program had to have a Background Investigation, and a
Secret clearance. The Army's Central Clearance Facility policy
is to grant the highest clearance possible for the type of
investigation done. A Background Investigation is required for
Top Secret clearance, therefore all candidates for the PRP
received a Top Secret clearance from the Central Clearance
Facility.

Here is where - access - the third component which allows people
to see classified data comes into play. To limit the number of
people who could see Top Secret information we, in the unit,
limited all but a few of these Top Secret clearance holders to
Secret access.

As a Q-clearance could allow Top Secret access and you said you
saw Top Secret data, I would conclude that your access was Top
Secret.

Top Secret Control Numbers are required for all Top Secret
documents in the military system and at other agencies. However,
as you noted, there are variations from facility to facility.
Each level of authority or command may impose additional
requirements or obtain authority to change or opt out of certain
requirements. My concern for Top Secret Control Numbers was with
SOM 1-01 since the copy presented was from a military base it
should have had a Top Secret Control Number.

Whether or not declassified documents have evidence of a Top
Secret control number is not relevant, as these have been
deleted crossed out, or in the case of the copy of AIR 203 found
by Robert Todd, the cover destroyed. SOM 1-01 purported to be an
active document.

I have found a number of former Top Secret documents dealing
with foo-fighters, ghost rockets and UFOs. All, except one
post-World War II document, had Top Secret control numbers,
since one was from a microfilm it is nearly impossible to make
out if there was originally such a number present. The Pentagon
message center used the message number and copy number of the
message to control Top Secret messages. The Army Air Force in a
similar manner used its record copy of Top Secret messages as
its Top Secret Control log noting the deposition of the other
copies of messages on the back. FUFOR has published excerpts of
my ghost rocket documents in The Ghost Rocket Files. In it one
may find a number of examples of Top Secret documents from
various AAF and Navy commands with different types of TS control
numbers. The point being that the requirement may be met in any
number of different ways.

A number of Air Force formerly Top Secret UFO documents may be
found on the Project 1947 website.

1948 documents contains the file of coversheet leading up to the
production of AIR 203, Analysis of Flying Objects Incident in
the U. S. (most coversheets are TS)

http://project1947.com/fig/48docdex.htm#top

An example of a Top Secret Control Log may be found at:

http://project1947.com/fig/tslog.htm

Background on AIR-203 including a discussion of TS control
numbers may be found at

http://project1947.com/fig/1948back.htm

AIR 203 maybe found at

http://project1947.com/fig/1948air.htm

A Top Secret document concerning an observation of an object
that crashed into a Swedish Lake by the chief of the Swedish
military maybe found at:

http://project1947.com/fig/usafe14.htm

Background on the above document may be found at

http://project1947.com/fig/jtt.htm

To updates on the investigation of this document a FOIA request
to the CIA returned negative results, a FOIA request made on my
behalf by the USAFE historian's office revealed that the records
for this period were no longer in Europe. This document is
absolute proof, not testimony offered by Ruppelt, Hynek and
Fournet, that there were Top Secret documents on UFOs at Wright
Field.

Finally, a 1949 document, REPORT BY THE DIRECTOR OF
INTELLIGENCE, USAF to the JOINT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE on
UNIDENTIFIED AERIAL OBJECTS may be found at:

http://project1947.com/fig/jic.htm

Background on this document maybe found at

http://project1947.com/fig/49docdex.htm

All of these formerly Top Secret documents had TS control
numbers. Within Records Group 341 there are indeed entries in
which documents are filed by Top Secret control numbers, not as
Ed Stewart wrote that all records within the RG 341 are filed
like that.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135


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