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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Nov > Nov 4

Re: Cosmic Top Secret

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:29:54 -0500
Archived: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:36:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret

>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 20:57:59 EST
>Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret

>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:25:34 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret

>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:41:59 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret

>>>>From: Anthony Cipoletta <cipey.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Subject: Cosmic Top Secret
>>>>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:04:44 -0500

Hi Robert,

I appreciate the chance to answer your objections. Your comments
are thoughtful, but I have some objections of my own.

>>>3. The GAO, in its search for Roswell related documents, noted
>>>on page 80 of their 400+ page overview background package that
>>>they had noted documents classified TOP SECRET RESTRICTED even
>>>though they had been told (Majestic 12) that no such designation
>>>was in use at the time (1954).

>>No, this is incorrect. I believe you are talking about
>>Restricted Data and Formerly Restricted Data both of which refer
>>to nuclear related information. Again, I would like to see such
>>a document that can be independently obtained from an archives.

>In my research, I have actually seen documents that were marked
>with Top Secret Restricted that had absolutly nothing do with so
>called "Restricted Data." From documents that I have seen from
>the Archives, not to mention photocopys I have seen over the
>years many highly classified documents were not stamped
>properly, or created exactly as the manual said they should be
>created, marked or stamped. This didn't diminish from the fact
>that they were highly classified until they were declassified,
>just career level govt workers, White House workers and staff
>members didn't always "do it by the book."

Please note the challenge at the bottom of this page. Please
produce one such document.

>>>I had also noted, in Archives, documents classified as SECRET
>>>classified programs relating to nuclear activities, one very
>>>RESTRICTED DATA on classified documents.

>>Again, I don't think you saw Secret Restrict, but rather Secret
>>Restricted Data (SRD)

>>The GOA Roswell investigators were cleared for access to nuclear
>>weapons data and could see Top Secret Restricted Data.

>>One problem in researching at archives is that documents
>>containing Restricted Data must be reviewed by the Energy
>>Department for release in addition to the originating agency. A
>>real problem when nuclear capable units of, say the Air Force,
>>are involved.

>>>In addition I required a Q clearance which was normally thought
>>>of as being somewhere between SECRET and TOP SECRET.

>>This is completely false. A Q clearance was necessary for access
>>to nuclear data. It is not between anything.

>While that may technically be true, List members will recall a
>much earlier post from me directly quoting the Congressional
>testimony of the director of Sandia Labs. He stated that a Q
>clearance was equivilant to a Top Secret and a L clearance was
>equivilant to a Secret. Bottom line is these clearences only
>apply to nuclear materials and a person with a Q clearance could
>not walk over to a DOD project and expect to be given knowledge
>about it even if it concerned nuclear materials.

And that is a mis-statement. A Q-clearance and a TS clearance
will get you access to TS nuclear information. One goes with the

>A DOD person shouldn't expect to walk over to DOE HQ and be
>given access to weapons material... even though said person may
>have TS/Codeword clearances relating to the DOD side of say a
>nuclear weapons project.

>The DOD person would have to go over to DOE, demonstrate a need-
>to-know, be cleared for access and get investigated to get an L
>or Q Clarence. The DOE person would have to go over to DOD,
>demonstrate a need-to-know, be cleared for access and get
>investigated to get a clearance into the DOD project.

If you had not cut the portion of my message out that pertained
to military personnel, we could now see where I said that
military personnel are no longer (after 1955) required to have Q
or L clearance. They are in the Personnel Reliability Program
which allows them access to nuclear data/weapons. There is
another Special Access Program, Critical Nuclear Design
Information - off the top of my head CNWIDI which doesn't look
correct - is the program.

Your assertion that DOD personnel have to go to DOE to
demonstrate a "need to know" is incorrect. They have to
demonstrate such only to their superiors.

>>Security manuals are readily available to researchers so
>>mis-statement like this could easily be avoided with a little

>Again, in my visits to the archives, I have found that many
>documents were not created by the book, nor were they stamped by
>the book and in some instances some of them did not have any
>kind of TS control number... even though that is required.

I didn't get my information from visits to archives although I
have discover nearly one hundred formerly Top Secret documents
there dealing with foo-fighters, ghost rockets and UFOs. I
lived and breathed security for over seven years. I think there
is a little difference in the experience level here.

Robert, please send me a photocopy of just one Top Secret
Restricted document from 1954 or before and the source
information. I continue to doubt that such exist, but I can be
convinced otherwise. During the last 50+ years marking and
procedures have changed and each agency has some leeway in the
marking and controlling their documents.

As for document found at the Archives without everything in
order, I have answer this objection about a dozen time. In
preparing document for the public many time the declassification
personnel might remove or change marking, coversheets, and
control #s, etc.

As applied to supposed "leaked" documents that are from current
sources, this argument holds no water with me, it is an
indication that the fabricators, I repeat here, the fabricators
don't know any better. Neither do many of the so called vaulted

Best regards,

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135

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