From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose.nul> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:22:30 +0100 Archived: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:03:57 -0400 Subject: Dr. Bill Doleman On Roswell Excavations Source: SciFi Channel. Transcript of 'Chat' with Dr. Bill Doleman October 30, 2002 http://www.scifi.com/transcripts/2002/bdoleman10.30.html Stig *** UFOlogy Chat with Dr. Bill Doleman ** ChatMod: Hi everyone, thanks for joining us here. I'm Ben Trumble for SCIFI. Tonight we're pleased to welcome Dr. Bill Doleman Principal Investigator for the University of New Mexico's Office of Contract Archeology. Dr. Doleman's research specialties include environmental analysis, prehistoric hunter-gatherers, geoarcheology, and computer database design and statistical analysis. Tonight we're going to discuss the ongoing archeological examination of the "Roswell Site" Mecca to those who believe we are not alone. Brief word about the drill. This is a moderated chat -- please send your questions for our guests to ChatMod, as private messages. (To send a private message, either double-click on ChatMod or type "/msg ChatMod" on the command line - only without the quotes.)...Then hit Enter (or Return on a Mac.) Let's start with some basic information. What is the Office of Contract Archeology? BillDoleman: The OCA is a unit of the University that sells a service to clients. Generally known as cultural; resource management. It's the archeological equvalent of an envirvirnmental impact. We determine if anything of archeological significance is found on a given site. ChatMod: As the Principal Investigator for Contract Archeology what's your job? BillDoleman: My job is to prepare proposals for projects, deal with contracts, and oversee fieldwork and report preparation ChatMod: How did you and your office become involved in the examination of sites around Roswell? BillDoleman: We were contacted by SCIFI and others in the summer of 1999. The director of the office, Dick Chapman, discussed a variety of options and gave them a budget to supervise volunteer ecavators. Just the sort of site survey we eventually conducted. There were six volunteers involved in the site at Roswell - the initial impact site also known as the Skip Site or the debris field ChatMod: What's the Skip site about? BillDoleman: The debris field is thought to consist of an impact mark, and originally an expanse of debris. The impacting craft skipped and ended up somewhere else - thus the name. The site is located between Corona and Roswell on BLM land and as part of the project we filled a standard archeological plan with the BLM and the State . BillDoleman: The plan stated clearly what we were up to and why. There were fewer raised eyebrows than I expected - in fact, all archeological investigations are archived in Satna Fe. And although the site is uncertain, the State assigned the Roswell site the number 1000000. And a code for alien cultures has been instituted. The whole Roswell Phenomenon is definitely important here in New Mexico like the souvenir shops in Roswell. <andyajenny>: There are a number of photographs of the impact site and actual debris doing its rounds would you consider these to be real or fake? BillDoleman: Having not seen them I can't render judgement. But one spot on the landscape looks an awful lot like another. If the photo has yuccas and grass it could be Roswell, or any number of other places. I did confirm the location with a photo of the debris field in the 1994 book and confirmed we were in the same place. <ZO>: Derrel Sims, Cheif investigator at Saber Enterprises owns a peice of the Roswell crash, are you aware of that? BillDoleman: Not at all. Sorry. <scramm>: Wasn't there two crash sites involved at Roswell? BillDoleman: I'm not a real expert on the story as it has been presented by various people. I get the impression there is the Initial Impact site (Skip) and the final crash site where the vessel ended up with bodies. The location of that is generally speaking to the east of the skip site, 15 to 25 miles away. Again, I'm the observer, not a Ufologist. That raises an important point. This project is the first to my knowledge to cross over from using heresay and anecdotal evidence to support the notion of a crash in '47 and to search for actual evidence BThat belongs in flashing letters. I would note that the volunteers were all very UFO savvy. We instituted a number of methods that were novel about the project to make sure that any evidence we found could not be tainted. Our dig was thuis credible on every level. <andyajenny>: During your archeologcal digs did you find any evidence to detemine if there was a UFO incident at Roswell? BillDoleman: I am definitely not allowed to say anything about that, and you definitely should watch the show on November 22nd I can say I was surprised by some of the results... ChatMod: Has you work at Roswell changed your mind on the subject of UFOs? Well, it's expanded my perspective in many ways. As a middle and high school student I read every scifi book I could get my hands on and I'm an an avid star watcher. I do belive there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe and I think this project was exactly the right thing to do because only physical evidence is going to convince scientists like myself and most of the public for that matter. <scramm>: After 55 years what kind of evidence is left? How intact is the site? ChatMod: Most of us think of archeology as a science devoted to examining a past dating back hundreds if not thousands of years. In examining such a recent site or series of sites as Roswell is your work largely forensic? BillDoleman: Archeology is the forensic science of the past. In many cases archeologists succeed in learning something about events in the past through the application of forensic methods, including looking at the subtle evidence the average person would not see. So in many respects a site, to an archeologist -- is just a very old crime scene. We have to take the estimated age of the site into our account and we have a slew of methods for that. When we know something about the age of a site, we can use the knowledge that we have, of natural and human agents, and how they alter any site over time. That was a real big question this investigation. There has been an awful lot of grazing by sheep and cows over 5 years. So we looked at the surface and at the profiles of the subsurface to understand what natural processing could have altered the site and bured physical evidence and the kind of evidence we were looking for was both debris and the impact mark Just a reminder. We're chatting Dr. Bill Doleman Principal Investigator for the University of New Mexico's Office of Contract Archeology. Tonight we're discussing the ongoing archeological examination of the "Roswell Site" <ZO>: There is much ancient archeaological data to support the theory that the 'space aliens' have been here longer that we think, what is your view on that? BillDoleman: Most of the so called 'data', in fact, is people interupting actual archeological facts. The so called Mayan Astronaut is a Mayan Glyph. The fact that it can be argued to look like an astronaut in a capsule doesn't mean that it is an astronaut in a capsule. Similarly the drawing or lines in Nazca Peru are thought to be too complicated and too big to have been produced by humans. That's really insulting to us humans Finally, I know of no professional archeologist who claims to have any evidence of alien visitation of Earth. <AikidoKa>: What about all the numerous paintings from the middle-ages, including religious depictions, that clearly show round vessels hovering aiborne in the background? BillDoleman: I'm afraid I don't know them. But I'd be dubious of "clearly". There are an awful lot of round things in the world. I guess I would offer the distinction between a fact like a painting and how we view its content. ChatMod: What can you tell us about the methodology of the Roswell examination? BillDoleman: Lots. That's where this is really important. An original step in UFO investigation - seeking clear physical evidence. Forensic Psychology evaluates heresay and eyewitness evidence, and is fully aware of its limitations. There is nothing like hard physical evidence. The goal was to go to the skip site and look for two things. First evidence of an impact mark that is no longer visible on the surface as far as anybody knows -- that's pretty important. Second to look for any debris that might have been missed by people who reportedly came out and picked it all up - ie The Government. Today, there is no evidence of an impact mark nor has anybody claimed to see any debris there now. So any mark or debris must now be buried. Given that we used techical advice from UFO researchers to tell us where to look and we then used state of the art geophysical prospecting techniques. We were looking for buried features and debris. The specific methods were electromagnetic conductivity and a metal detection system much more sensative than than a hand held metal detector. The conductivity survey had the goal of finding subtle variations in soil characteristics that might indicate the presence of a buried feature like an impact mark that had been obscured by 55 years of natural erosion. The metal detection survey was, for obvious reasons, looking for buried debris that might be metallic in nature. We also targeted areas of animal burrowing since animals burrows are one way that missed debris might become buried. We also inspected aerial photographes from 1946 and 1954 to look for evidence of an impact ring One other thing we did, was to use backhoe trenches to look for evidence of the impact mark. ChatMod: Did any of your colleagues look at you askance when you started work on Roswell? BillDoleman: Not really. I think we all recognise the importance of putting the pudding to the test and tasting it <ZO>: Have you ever wondered if the 'aliens' purposefully crashed that ship in Roswell, for other purposes? BillDoleman: Not really. But given that there is an alien beer brewed in the area which is very good... maybe it was a DWI, or FWI crash. Nobody crashes on purpose. <andyajenny>: According to reports where the actual craft was found, some miles from the actual debris field, isn't it safe to assume there wasn't much of a impact to find? BillDoleman: First, we were directed to the location of the project by people who know way more than we do and they said this was the best place to look for debris and a mark. If the stories are true about a 'clean-up', maybe a mark is the best place to look Secondly if you look at the stories of what the debris was like, then you look at modern materials science is doing these days, we're in no position to speculate on the nature of a craft, it's construction or any debris. But that's an archeologist, not a Ufologist speaking..... ChatMod: Bill, our hour is about up BillDoleman: Thanks. The Roswell Incident is clearly an important event culturally in New Mexico, the US, and around the world. While the story has a life of its own, there is probably a grain of truth, whatever it might be, at the heart of what anthropologists would call "an oral tradition". The techniques of forensic science can be applied equally to the search for evidence that is physical, as well as understanding the complex story that has evoloved over the last 55 years since 1947. My pleasure to have talked with you. I'm sorry that I could tell you everything. Watch the show - your eyes will be opened wide.
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