UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jun > Jun 30

Re: Breakout Of The Fictions - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:46:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:07:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Breakout Of The Fictions - Friedman


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:21:48 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Breakout Of The Fictions

 >>From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Breakout Of The Fictions
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 04:12:24 +0100

 >>Breakout Of The Fictions

 ><snip>

 >>The MJ12 group was a proud techno-aristocracy. Well-heeled
 >>and over-protected, and presumably as fond of decadent games
 >>as is every aristocracy. Could some of these socially
 >>isolated people, over-endowed with brain (as was Borges), in
 >>a supremely decadent moment, have cooked something up from
 >>this story? Inward looking, and possibly in a state of shock
 >>after the most intense five years any human could live
 >>through, they faced an immediate post-war world that they did
 >>not understand, and moreover a world that had taken their
 >>youth away, and given almost all of them fatal cancers. As
 >>Eisenhower hinted, certainly Borges' ideas could have
 >>represented to them a kind of fantastic super- science, the
 >>next quantum step as regards conceptions of Matter and Idea,
 >>and there were as many forms of such things flying around Los
 >>Alamos in the late forties as there were desert flies. As
 >>Friedman and the Woods have so convincingly demonstrated, the
 >>MJ12 papers show access to vintage top-secret material. Is it
 >>possible that like the heresiarchs of Uqbar, the elite of the
 >>military-industrial-complex attempted the experiment of
 >>seeding powerful suggestions if only to sit back and watch
 >>such new-born information animals attempt to clone
 >>themselves, producing almost-appearances and almost-objects
 >>such as the UFO?

 >>And when they had done so, did they attempt unsuccessfully to
 >>shut the pile down?

 >I think you give too much weight to the research of Friedman and
 >the Woods in the MJ-12 affair (no offense intended to either
 >party).

 >They have laid out their arguments, but few researchers give
 >much credence to the MJ-12 papers, and none have (to my
 >knowledge) provenance that can be verified.

 >There are several good arguments to show that the SOM-101 manual
 >is not valid, and what most probably don't realize is that the
 >manual was received long before it was publicized by Friedman in
 >his book.

I have still not seen these "good" arguments succeed. I have
seen false reasoning, a rush to judgement, etc. I can't imagine
why most people wouldn't realize that the manual was received
well before my book 'TOP SECRET/MAJIC' was published. After all
I noted on page 161, first page of Chapter 9 "The Majestic 12
Operations Manual", that Don Berliner had received the manual in
March of 1994 but that I hadn't become aware of it until Dec.
1994, when Don slipped up and made a brief comment about it.

Judging by the many false arguments I can imagine that most
people haven't read TSM, nor the 108 page, 1990 'Final Report on
Operation Majestic 12', nor my MUFON 2000 paper 'Roswell and the
MJ-12 Documents In The New Millennium' in which I deal with
objections.

But why let the facts stand in the way of a loud proclamation?

For example, are most people aware that Phil Klass paid me
$1000. for providing 10 NSC documents done in the same large
PICA type as the CT memo, though he claimed on the basis of 9 of
the 250,000 Eisenhower Library NSC comment that it should have
had elite type? The check is in FR on MJ-12".

Many claimed that the security marking TOP SECRET RESTRICTED was
absolutely wrong. Sorry, the GAO found a number of examples of
this in still classified documents. CSICOP's Senior Research
Fellow Joe Nickell claimed that the date format 18 November,
1952, was wrong because it violated the government style manual
(the comma after November). I have located many documents,
definitely genuine, that have the same date format (2 by MJ -12
members Smith and Hillenkoetter) and many others.

Some falsely proclaim that all TS documents have to have TS
Control numbers. In 'FR on MJ-12' I had published 4 genuine TS
documents that did not... and there are many others. Some claim
that Osborn in 'Questioned Documents' (Supposedly 1978)shows
that if the 2 Truman signatures are identical (They are not) one
must be fraudulent. Actually Osborn, (which was really written
in 1910 _not_ 1978) says one can have essentially identical
signatures, but not consecutively. The 2 Truman signatures are
a week apart.

Some objected to dates in SOM being too early. Then it was
discovered that Berliner hadn't had a print made of the Change
page, which helps destroy that argument. There is much more in
the above referenced items all available from UFORI see:

www.v-j- enterprises.com/sfpage.html

 >Efforts had gotten underway to try and check its provenance
 >before it began to impact the genre in a negative way, but some
 >felt the need to get this information out.

We don't know who Deep throat was either. Does that mean his
data was wrong?We do know the roll of film was sent from La
Crosse Wisconsin. Let's face it, for somebody with a high
security clearance to photograph a Classified document and
distribute it, is a clear violation of the law.He was at risk.
Having unauthorized possession of a classified document in the
US is not illegal, though it is in the UK.

We do know that the National Archives made a number of changes
in their original statement about the CT memo, when I pointed
out specific facts such as that the onionskin paper used for
carbon copies did NOT all have a certain watermark .

 >This is, of course, an old debate and certainly not worth
 >re-hashing again (unless there is some new information to
 >convey).

 >Steve

If the critics of MJ-12 would do their homework instead of
proclaiming the documents are fraudulent, we wouldn't have to
rehash. They haven't hashed in the first place. I should point
out that by careful research the entirely independent Tim Cooper
documents about MJ-12 were shown in my MUFON 2000 paper to be
fraudulent... by investigation not by proclamation.


Stan Friedman




[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp


Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com