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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jun > Jun 17

Re: Request For Investigative &

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 22:44:28 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:15:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Request For Investigative &

 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Request For Investigative & Remedial Intervention
 >Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:27:51 -0400

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:11:09 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Request For Investigative & Remedial Intervention


 >>First... Dick Hall has posted _several_ excellent proposals for
 >>a UFOlogical 'oversight' board or panel that have all been
 >>uniformly ignored. A good place to start might be to go back in
 >>the UpDates archives, dig up Dick Halls' proposals, and maybe
 >>try to 'fine tune' and hopefully implement one of them. No need
 >>to reinvent the wheel. Dick Halls' proposals are a great head
 >>start on an already difficult task.

 >However, it was Richard's hard line approach to Ufology that
 >caused him to sever his involvement in the MUFON Journal. Much
 >of this field is driven by the profit motive or faith, and not
 >the pursuit of scientific integrity (which we probably couldn't
 >agree on anyway).


 >In the past, we've outlined goals that might help to lend
 >credibility to the field, but IMO there's little chance that you
 >could get two or three of us to agree on anything major. A
 >clear definition of the field, rules of evidence, and peer
 >review would help. But, they're unlikely at this point.

 >My 2-cents.

Steve, John, Bruce, and all Listerions from Mysterium,

John, I've been meaning to post today regarding my appreciation
of your post, above, with your support of Dick Hall's
recommendations. For quite some time he and I have communicated
off-List regarding these needed remedies. I also am in strong
agreement with him. In our last post we agreed with our
unfortunate cynicism that, knowing the history of the field over
the last few decades, it seems highly unlikely that the
"scientific but with an open mind - just show me the evidence
other than anecdotal or hoaxed documents - to support your claim
- otherwise you are part of the problem and not part of the
solution attitude" - will form an organization of strength with
respectable standards that earn it enduring credibility - and
able to somehow reduce the amount of ludicrous hucksterism noise
from heavy metal to a mere whisper.

Yeah right, fat chance. I agree with you Steve. Lenin once said "the
masses are asses" and I hate to say it but in some ways at certain
levels of all types of society the people have not developed how to
separate bonafide evidence from BS information by using critical
thought and reason. Many people operate on emotional and uneducated
ignorance, so rhey grasp at the most absurd ideas to lead them. Real
truth is always bypassed by appealing to...well, they are in
conspiracy to deny what we know.

For example, to distimctly see the two very different sides of
the UFO field compare Stan Friedman's post regarding 'Top Secret
Documents' to last week's proclamation of "Cosmic Deception" by
Greer and Sheehan from the Disclosure Project. These Disclosure
folks were bonkers for a long time but now they have become
completely bonkers with their latest explanation of why the Bush
New World Order is evil incarnate and how "the secret team" and
the aliens are manipulating all people on earth.

Stan, just out of curiosity I wonder if in your many lectures
people in the audience bring up the subject? I imagine that now
the "Cosmic Deception" document idea will circulate through the
underground in the netherlands and that a significant number of
audience members may ask you about Greertalk.

Where is the meat in this taco shell from these vegetarians? But
I am sure there are many people eating these up like raw meat.
Don't think, just eat what we are saying like coyotes to raw
steak. Don't look for facts, it is easier to just keep on

I well imagine that a former UFO lawyer whom we all know from
that NSA case is burning sage and chanting purification mantras
in his crystal pyramid while berobed in the splendid cape worthy
of a cosmic prophet.

The last thing I want to say is in regards to Dick Hall and
MUFON. I was a member of MUFON for 20 or so years. At one time I
believed that MUFON was the organisation that would be the
scientific side of ufology through its research and standards.
Over many years there were a number of events that seemed to
diminish that hope in my mind.

MUFON also has chapters all over the world who hold meetings for
the public. Presenting controversial speakers is a minefield.
Every year there is an annual symposium in some city. Last year
MUFON's standards had dropped so low (even after change at the
top) that I, along with Dick Hall and numerous others were in
disagreemnet with them allowing certain speakers on their
symposium. Dick Hall was critical of their choices, so MUFON
decided to cast him out as an author even though he was a writer
and researcher with very high credibility in the field. Prior to
that I had not renewed my membership.

You had a large organization potentially able to do what many
intelligent people are now calling for in ufology; do the
research and form well founded positions as standards in the
field. Unfortunately many things went astray. They may be beyond
any remedy.

If people want the field to somehow unite between the various
credible researchers and all the legitimate research that still
begs for attention then we had all bettter start chanting for
moolah, the major ingredient needed to get any of this done. Mr.
Bigelow is doing his own thing in his own way. Tonight we all
should start buning sage and chanting the moolah invocation to
materialize what is sorely missing. Please pray or wish to
Mysterium for moolah for all. Please give any multi-millionaires
my email address.

I'll start chanting now,


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