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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jun > Jun 4

Re: UFO Frauds - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 07:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 16:56:00 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds - Hamilton

 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:03:06 -0700
 >Subject: Re: UFO Frauds

 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Frauds
 >>Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:25:20 -0300

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys' - Randle

 >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:27:28 EDT
 >>>>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'

 >>>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>>>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'


 >>>>>I noticed that Kevin Randle has agreed with Stanton Friedman on
 >>>>>Mel Noel (AKA Guy Kirkwood) and his story while he flew an F-86
 >>>>>Sabre jet back in 54. I recently talked with Guy at Rachel and
 >>>>>he passed around his military record of honorable discharge
 >>>>>(DD214) together with several pages of a United Airlines roster
 >>>>>with his name on it while he worked for that company. I saw no
 >>>>>evidence of record tampering, but these records could not be
 >>>>>found by public access. I do not have copies of these at this
 >>>>>time, but I have also seen photos of Guy in flight gear in the
 >>>>>cockpit of an F-86 when looking much younger. I suspect that
 >>>>>someone has tampered with his records as discovered by an FAA

 >Ok, What unit, regular, air guard, and for how long? Irritates
 >me with these weasels who claim military service, It is easy to
 >check them out (If you know what you are doing). Like what model
 >of F-86? How do you start it? what was the armament? (this one
 >separates the A's (machine guns, 50cal. to be exact) from the
 >D's (Rockets)..or the all flying tail what do you know about

Good questions GT. I will get the answers for you but since Guy
does not yet have email I will have to rely on the telephone or mail
and if you have more specific questions, please forward to me.

As far as I have seen Guy was flying an F-86, but not a D. The
six machine guns were removed and replaced with Bell 7 Howel
cameras (little ones for that time). I remember Guy saying that
the gun ports converge on a point at such a distance ahead of
the airplane but do not remember the distance point.


 >>It seems amazing that suddenly Guy Kirkwood comes up with a
 >>DD214 even though Linda Howe gave him plenty of time to do so a
 >>few years back after we had a big session at the Hilton Hotel in
 >>LA with Guy.His first excuse was that it was in a box that fell
 >>off the truck when he moved. Another extension ; no form. He
 >>also claimed to have flown DC-8s for United, but could not
 >>provide a copy of his card for the Airline Pilots Association
 >>though he claimed membership.They didn't have him listed under
 >>any of the 3 names he has used. I checked the FAA for his pilot
 >>credentials. He was cleared for single engine aircraft. The DC8
 >>has 4 big ones. He claimed to have graduated from Cheshire
 >>Academy.I checked with them, he had only attended for a few
 >>months and no graduation.There was also a letter from the Air
 >>Force denying that anybody by any of his names had been an Air
 >>Force pilot. His story about what happened (being threatened by
 >>a supposed CIA agent brother of the host,Bob Dornan,) on a TV
 >>show when he was exposed, was a flat out lie. I would suggest he
 >>is a consumate con-man.That is a left handed compliment.

Not amazing at all. He had already said that it was buried in
boxes in storage and after a lot of urging he finally went
through those boxes and found his records.

BTW, he said that he flew as a flight engineer (not a pilot) on
the DC8, at least, the flight he told me about where the pilot
used the stewardess' camera to photograph a cylindrical-shaped
UFO pacing the airplane. He also described his duties in great

 >Ask any DC8 driver: What are the "suitcase handles" the real
 >ones will tell you exactly what they are and the reason for
 >them. Kind of like how you can tell if someone ever flew B-17's,
 >ask the how they got in. Better yet - if they are capable and a
 >B-17 is handy, have them demonstrate - another thing is the way
 >a DC8 deploys the spoliers on landing.

Will ask.


 >>>have known Guy now since 1977 and have always heard a
 >>>consistent story from him including the photos he has shown me,
 >>>however Guy has drawbacks in that he gets involved with
 >>>"schemes" that he believes in and I don't which make him look
 >>>like a huckster and I will be the first to admit that, but I
 >>>have not yet thrown away his USAF story and see no reason to,
 >>>but admit it loses value because his records have not been
 >>>accessed by other investigators from military archives and
 >>>examined and compared to his claims.

 >Here is my somewhat paranoid take: what if Guy (and Lazar) are
 >ah, disinformation specialists? To confuse the issue with a
 >murky trail and unbelievabilty.

Don't think so, but disinformation is hard to prove until you
have authentic information to compare with, else its just an
empty allegation.


 >>>>Or that Gerald Anderson provided some documentation for his
 >>>>story, but no one could corroborate it and we know that he
 >>>>forged two documents... his telephone bill and his high school
 >>>>transcript... and now his Navy service is in question because it
 >>>>is clear that he was not a SEAL as he claimed.

 >Know a few Seals, they will 'out' a fake, if they get him. Not
 >pleasantly, either.

I know this too.

 >>>This is something that would surely dead agent his story. There
 >>>is no excuse for forgery.

 >>>>Or that Cliff Stone wasn't trained as a clerk typist when his
 >>>>record showed that he was and that all his assignments in the
 >>>>Army were in administration... which he denies.

 >There is a clown if there ever was one, wasn't he the one who
 >claimed to be either a Ranger or Green Beret who shot down or
 >retrieved a crashed saucer in Vietnam? Names of members in his
 >unit, or the unit itself. Where and when? Curiously, these folks
 >usually never surface.


 >Bill, there are the sceptical on this List that could be gummed
 >on the knee by a Grey and debunk the event as an over aggressive
 >Mexican Hairless.

True. I have no compulsion to prove anything to the skeptical.
Let them do their own footwork if they are so interested. If
they are still skeptical, fine. Where is that consensus reality?

 >>>I, myself, am careful to keep my records straight and have never
 >>>claimed education beyond my actual achievements. I still cannot
 >>>afford a PhD, much less a few more classes to take me beyond 3
 >>>years of college. I don't know how my Dad did it when he managed
 >>>to graduate with an LLB from Yale. University courses were a lot
 >>>less expensive these days. I work at UCLA now and realize the
 >>>high cost of education.

 >>>We have an Astrobiology Society on campus and sure wish they
 >>>would be open to the UFO-alien question.

 >Not as long as reason prevails. Astrobiology is slime and lichen
 >on a rock, on the wall, of Vallis Marineris not the Kilngon
 >Battle fleet that just blocked out the light of the full Moon.
 >The idea of UFOs and Aliens is anethema, heresy, to the dogma
 >of Reason.

Those slime molds may one day turn into Klingons so watch your
out overhead lest they descend on you with Bird of Prey!

B. Hamilton

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