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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jun > Jun 4

Re: UFO Frauds - GT McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 23:03:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 07:03:41 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds - GT McCoy

 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Frauds
 >Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:25:20 -0300

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys' - Randle

 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:27:28 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'

 >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'


 >>>>I noticed that Kevin Randle has agreed with Stanton Friedman on
 >>>>Mel Noel (AKA Guy Kirkwood) and his story while he flew an F-86
 >>>>Sabre jet back in 54. I recently talked with Guy at Rachel and
 >>>>he passed around his military record of honorable discharge
 >>>>(DD214) together with several pages of a United Airlines roster
 >>>>with his name on it while he worked for that company. I saw no
 >>>>evidence of record tampering, but these records could not be
 >>>>found by public access. I do not have copies of these at this
 >>>>time, but I have also seen photos of Guy in flight gear in the
 >>>>cockpit of an F-86 when looking much younger. I suspect that
 >>>>someone has tampered with his records as discovered by an FAA

Ok, What unit, regular, air guard, and for how long? Irritates
me with these weasels who claim military service, It is easy to
check them out (If you know what you are doing). Like what model
of F-86? How do you start it? what was the armament? (this one
separates the A's (machine guns, 50cal. to be exact) from the
D's (Rockets)..or the all flying tail what do you know about


 >It seems amazing that suddenly Guy Kirkwood comes up with a
 >DD214 even though Linda Howe gave him plenty of time to do so a
 >few years back after we had a big session at the Hilton Hotel in
 >LA with Guy.His first excuse was that it was in a box that fell
 >off the truck when he moved. Another extension ; no form. He
 >also claimed to have flown DC-8s for United, but could not
 >provide a copy of his card for the Airline Pilots Association
 >though he claimed membership.They didn't have him listed under
 >any of the 3 names he has used. I checked the FAA for his pilot
 >credentials. He was cleared for single engine aircraft. The DC8
 >has 4 big ones. He claimed to have graduated from Cheshire
 >Academy.I checked with them, he had only attended for a few
 >months and no graduation.There was also a letter from the Air
 >Force denying that anybody by any of his names had been an Air
 >Force pilot. His story about what happened (being threatened by
 >a supposed CIA agent brother of the host,Bob Dornan,) on a TV
 >show when he was exposed, was a flat out lie. I would suggest he
 >is a consumate con-man.That is a left handed compliment.

Ask any DC8 driver: What are the "suitcase handles" the real
ones will tell you exactly what they are and the reason for
them. Kind of like how you can tell if someone ever flew B-17's,
ask the how they got in. Better yet - if they are capable and a
B-17 is handy, have them demonstrate - another thing is the way
a DC8 deploys the spoliers on landing.

 >>My point is that you accept Don Ecker's expose. At one time
 >>Ecker also wrote a supporting article on Bob Lazar. I am willing
 >>to bet you would not accept the statements made in that article.

 >>An ex-USAF officer who was a co-worker of mine and I had lunch.
 >>His testimony, dealing with high security events in the Air
 >>Force, was that documents do get altered or removed. That was
 >>his opinion based on his experience. If that is so, then an
 >>investigator's job is made more difficult and we need other
 >>avenues of approach.

 >>The fact is, also, I know of two witnesses who obtained (through
 >>FOIA) the CIA reports on their reported sightings and both
 >>complained about inaccuracies in these documents. One went about
 >>the task of sending the CIA a list of corrections.

 >>>Well, I agree, but I think we know who that was. He has
 >>>presented a DD-214 that no one can get through public access.
 >>>There is no good evidence that he is who he said he is, or that
 >>>his stories are true. Instead we hear that someone tampered with
 >>>his records.

 >>have known Guy now since 1977 and have always heard a
 >>consistent story from him including the photos he has shown me,
 >>however Guy has drawbacks in that he gets involved with
 >>"schemes" that he believes in and I don't which make him look
 >>like a huckster and I will be the first to admit that, but I
 >>have not yet thrown away his USAF story and see no reason to,
 >>but admit it loses value because his records have not been
 >>accessed by other investigators from military archives and
 >>examined and compared to his claims.

Here is my somewhat paranoid take: what if Guy (and Lazar) are
ah, disinformation specialists? To confuse the issue with a
murky trail and unbelievabilty.

 >>>As they tampered with Bob Lazar's records when no one could
 >>>corroborate what he said.

 >>Not completely true as I have talked to witnesses, one who
 >>worked on the TTR and knew Bob and knew about S4. The Tonopah
 >>Test Range is a secure area, but not as secure as Area 51. I
 >>have been out to this area several times mostly interviewing
 >>witnesses of UFO sightings in that area known as the Tikaboo

 >>>Or that Gerald Anderson provided some documentation for his
 >>>story, but no one could corroborate it and we know that he
 >>>forged two documents... his telephone bill and his high school
 >>>transcript... and now his Navy service is in question because it
 >>>is clear that he was not a SEAL as he claimed.

Know a few Seals, they will 'out' a fake, if they get him. Not
pleasantly, either.

 >>This is something that would surely dead agent his story. There
 >>is no excuse for forgery.

 >>>Or that Cliff Stone wasn't trained as a clerk typist when his
 >>>record showed that he was and that all his assignments in the
 >>>Army were in administration... which he denies.

There is a clown if there ever was one, wasn't he the one who
claimed to be either a Ranger or Green Beret who shot down or
retrieved a crashed saucer in Vietnam? Names of members in his
unit, or the unit itself. Where and when? Curiously, these folks
usually never surface.


 >>Willing to listen to you and other veteran researchers, but I
 >>have been at the UFO subject since 1953 and from 1957 - 1960
 >>could tell you of personal experiences I have had that you would
 >>certainly find hard to believe and I would not blame you.

 >>Imagine that we are trying to obtain some credibility to this
 >>subject in the midst of hoax claims and the very fantastic
 >>nature of the phenomena itself which I have witnessed first
 >>hand. Even though there are those on this list who think we may
 >>all be bonkers and have no prayer of achieving credibility, we
 >>have made an impact on the public and do have some thinking
 >>about the possibility of extraterrestrial contact.

Bill, there are the sceptical on this List that could be gummed
on the knee by a Grey and debunk the event as an over aggressive
Mexican Hairless.

 >>I, myself, am careful to keep my records straight and have never
 >>claimed education beyond my actual achievements. I still cannot
 >>afford a PhD, much less a few more classes to take me beyond 3
 >>years of college. I don't know how my Dad did it when he managed
 >>to graduate with an LLB from Yale. University courses were a lot
 >>less expensive these days. I work at UCLA now and realize the
 >>high cost of education.

 >>We have an Astrobiology Society on campus and sure wish they
 >>would be open to the UFO-alien question.

Not as long as reason prevails. Astrobiology is slime and lichen
on a rock, on the wall, of Vallis Marineris not the Kilngon
Battle fleet that just blocked out the light of the full Moon.
The idea of UFOs and Aliens is anethema, heresy, to the dogma
of Reason.

 >I have a piece about Bob Lazar exposing some of his falsehoods
 >at my website www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html  Guess I need
 >to add one about Mel Noel, aka Noel Bryce Cornwall, aka Guy
 >Kirkwood. I would agree there is a difference between publicly
 >accessible files and internal government documents. I think I
 >surprised Gene Huff, who often had fronted for Lazar, and had
 >approached me about standing up for Lazar, by sending him copies
 >of my diplomas, a long resume, list of papers, listings in
 >membership directories for professional groups, etc.

You all are the good guys, and even if there are differences of
opinion, you are able to at least question the messengers of
fakery. I am just amazed at the Cajones of the folks who try
this sort of thing. To my own rather limited knowlege of the
matters of UFOs, the necessity of calling fakes is paramount.
The 'bunkers are indeed the ones who are living in dream world.
Reality is completely different for those of us who have
experienced something that can't be a 'Klassified' object.


GT McCoy

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