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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jun > Jun 3

Re: UFO Frauds - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:25:20 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:21:28 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds - Friedman


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys' - Randle

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:27:28 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'

 >>>>From: Erik Landahl <cubman1@mindspring.com>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Subject: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Aliens'
 >>>>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:08:51 -0700

 >><snip>

 >>>I noticed that Kevin Randle has agreed with Stanton Friedman on
 >>>Mel Noel (AKA Guy Kirkwood) and his story while he flew an F-86
 >>>Sabre jet back in 54. I recently talked with Guy at Rachel and
 >>>he passed around his military record of honorable discharge
 >>>(DD214) together with several pages of a United Airlines roster
 >>>with his name on it while he worked for that company. I saw no
 >>>evidence of record tampering, but these records could not be
 >>>found by public access. I do not have copies of these at this
 >>>time, but I have also seen photos of Guy in flight gear in the
 >>>cockpit of an F-86 when looking much younger. I suspect that
 >>>someone has tampered with his records as discovered by an FAA
 >>>investigator a few years ago when Guy was flying a private plane
 >>>and had to make an emergency landing on a freeway.

 >>Here is the point I was trying to make. We have good evidence
 >>that Mel Noel, who is also Guy Kirkwood, is not who he says he
 >>is. Don Ecker did an expose of him in UFO magazine and yet, here
 >>we are, suggesting that someone has tampered with his records.

It seems amazing that suddenly Guy Kirkwood comes up with a
DD214 even though Linda Howe gave him plenty of time to do so a
few years back after we had a big session at the Hilton Hotel in
LA with Guy.His first excuse was that it was in a box that fell
off the truck when he moved. Another extension ; no form. He
also claimed to have flown DC-8s for United, but could not
provide a copy of his card for the Airline Pilots Association
though he claimed membership.They didn't have him listed under
any of the 3 names he has used. I checked the FAA for his pilot
credentials. He was cleared for single engine aircraft. The DC8
has 4 big ones. He claimed to have graduated from Cheshire
Academy.I checked with them, he had only attended for a few
months and no graduation.There was also a letter from the Air
Force denying that anybody by any of his names had been an Air
Force pilot. His story about what happened (being threatened by
a supposed CIA agent brother of the host,Bob Dornan,) on a TV
show when he was exposed, was a flat out lie. I would suggest he
is a consumate con-man.That is a left handed compliment.

 >My point is that you accept Don Ecker's expose. At one time
 >Ecker also wrote a supporting article on Bob Lazar. I am willing
 >to bet you would not accept the statements made in that article.

 >An ex-USAF officer who was a co-worker of mine and I had lunch.
 >His testimony, dealing with high security events in the Air
 >Force, was that documents do get altered or removed. That was
 >his opinion based on his experience. If that is so, then an
 >investigator's job is made more difficult and we need other
 >avenues of approach.

 >The fact is, also, I know of two witnesses who obtained (through
 >FOIA) the CIA reports on their reported sightings and both
 >complained about inaccuracies in these documents. One went about
 >the task of sending the CIA a list of corrections.

 >>Well, I agree, but I think we know who that was. He has
 >>presented a DD-214 that no one can get through public access.
 >>There is no good evidence that he is who he said he is, or that
 >>his stories are true. Instead we hear that someone tampered with
 >>his records.

 >have known Guy now since 1977 and have always heard a
 >consistent story from him including the photos he has shown me,
 >however Guy has drawbacks in that he gets involved with
 >"schemes" that he believes in and I don't which make him look
 >like a huckster and I will be the first to admit that, but I
 >have not yet thrown away his USAF story and see no reason to,
 >but admit it loses value because his records have not been
 >accessed by other investigators from military archives and
 >examined and compared to his claims.

 >>As they tampered with Bob Lazar's records when no one could
 >>corroborate what he said.

 >Not completely true as I have talked to witnesses, one who
 >worked on the TTR and knew Bob and knew about S4. The Tonopah
 >Test Range is a secure area, but not as secure as Area 51. I
 >have been out to this area several times mostly interviewing
 >witnesses of UFO sightings in that area known as the Tikaboo
 >Valley.

 >>Or that Gerald Anderson provided some documentation for his
 >>story, but no one could corroborate it and we know that he
 >>forged two documents... his telephone bill and his high school
 >>transcript... and now his Navy service is in question because it
 >>is clear that he was not a SEAL as he claimed.

 >This is something that would surely dead agent his story. There
 >is no excuse for forgery.

 >>Or that Cliff Stone wasn't trained as a clerk typist when his
 >>record showed that he was and that all his assignments in the
 >>Army were in administration... which he denies.

 >This is another case I am not sure about.

 >>Or that Don Schmitt didn't work at the Post Office and that he
 >>had taken classes as several universities that had no record of
 >>him.

 >Don has certainly done himself in doing that. However, his
 >presentation, at least the one I heard, did not deviate much
 >from the books you both co-authored. He may give other
 >presentations that exaggerate claims, but I have not heard them.
 >Your probably should be thankful that he doesn't go off the deep
 >end (at least not at a MUFON presentation).

 >Willing to listen to you and other veteran researchers, but I
 >have been at the UFO subject since 1953 and from 1957 - 1960
 >could tell you of personal experiences I have had that you would
 >certainly find hard to believe and I would not blame you.

 >Imagine that we are trying to obtain some credibility to this
 >subject in the midst of hoax claims and the very fantastic
 >nature of the phenomena itself which I have witnessed first
 >hand. Even though there are those on this list who think we may
 >all be bonkers and have no prayer of achieving credibility, we
 >have made an impact on the public and do have some thinking
 >about the possibility of extraterrestrial contact.

 >I, myself, am careful to keep my records straight and have never
 >claimed education beyond my actual achievements. I still cannot
 >afford a PhD, much less a few more classes to take me beyond 3
 >years of college. I don't know how my Dad did it when he managed
 >to graduate with an LLB from Yale. University courses were a lot
 >less expensive these days. I work at UCLA now and realize the
 >high cost of education.

 >We have an Astrobiology Society on campus and sure wish they
 >would be open to the UFO-alien question.

I have a piece about Bob Lazar exposing some of his falsehoods
at my website www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html  Guess I need
to add one about Mel Noel, aka Noel Bryce Cornwall, aka Guy
Kirkwood. I would agree there is a difference between publicly
accessible files and internal government documents. I think I
surprised Gene Huff, who often had fronted for Lazar, and had
approached me about standing up for Lazar, by sending him copies
of my diplomas, a long resume, list of papers, listings in
membership directories for professional groups, etc.

Stan Friedman




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