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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jun > Jun 3

Re: UFO Frauds [was: Bill Uhouse... ] - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 08:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:59:20 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds [was: Bill Uhouse... ] - Hamilton


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:27:28 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Re: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Greys'

 >>>From: Erik Landahl <cubman1@mindspring.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Bill Uhouse & Area 51 'Aliens'
 >>>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:08:51 -0700

 ><snip>

 >>I noticed that Kevin Randle has agreed with Stanton Friedman on
 >>Mel Noel (AKA Guy Kirkwood) and his story while he flew an F-86
 >>Sabre jet back in 54. I recently talked with Guy at Rachel and
 >>he passed around his military record of honorable discharge
 >>(DD214) together with several pages of a United Airlines roster
 >>with his name on it while he worked for that company. I saw no
 >>evidence of record tampering, but these records could not be
 >>found by public access. I do not have copies of these at this
 >>time, but I have also seen photos of Guy in flight gear in the
 >>cockpit of an F-86 when looking much younger. I suspect that
 >>someone has tampered with his records as discovered by an FAA
 >>investigator a few years ago when Guy was flying a private plane
 >>and had to make an emergency landing on a freeway.

 >Here is the point I was trying to make. We have good evidence
 >that Mel Noel, who is also Guy Kirkwood, is not who he says he
 >is. Don Ecker did an expose of him in UFO magazine and yet, here
 >we are, suggesting that someone has tampered with his records.

My point is that you accept Don Ecker's expose. At one time
Ecker also wrote a supporting article on Bob Lazar. I am willing
to bet you would not accept the statements made in that article.

An ex-USAF officer who was a co-worker of mine and I had lunch.
His testimony, dealing with high security events in the Air
Force, was that documents do get altered or removed. That was
his opinion based on his experience. If that is so, then an
investigator's job is made more difficult and we need other
avenues of approach.

The fact is, also, I know of two witnesses who obtained (through
FOIA) the CIA reports on their reported sightings and both
complained about inaccuracies in these documents. One went about
the task of sending the CIA a list of corrections.

 >Well, I agree, but I think we know who that was. He has
 >presented a DD-214 that no one can get through public access.
 >There is no good evidence that he is who he said he is, or that
 >his stories are true. Instead we hear that someone tampered with
 >his records.

I have known Guy now since 1977 and have always heard a
consistent story from him including the photos he has shown me,
however Guy has drawbacks in that he gets involved with
"schemes" that he believes in and I don't which make him look
like a huckster and I will be the first to admit that, but I
have not yet thrown away his USAF story and see no reason to,
but admit it loses value because his records have not been
accessed by other investigators from military archives and
examined and compared to his claims.

 >As they tampered with Bob Lazar's records when no one could
 >corroborate what he said.

Not completely true as I have talked to witnesses, one who
worked on the TTR and knew Bob and knew about S4. The Tonopah
Test Range is a secure area, but not as secure as Area 51. I
have been out to this area several times mostly interviewing
witnesses of UFO sightings in that area known as the Tikaboo
Valley.

 >Or that Gerald Anderson provided some documentation for his
 >story, but no one could corroborate it and we know that he
 >forged two documents... his telephone bill and his high school
 >transcript... and now his Navy service is in question because it
 >is clear that he was not a SEAL as he claimed.

This is something that would surely dead agent his story. There
is no excuse for forgery.

 >Or that Cliff Stone wasn't trained as a clerk typist when his
 >record showed that he was and that all his assignments in the
 >Army were in administration... which he denies.

This is another case I am not sure about.

 >Or that Don Schmitt didn't work at the Post Office and that he
 >had taken classes as several universities that had no record of
 >him.

Don has certainly done himself in doing that. However, his
presentation, at least the one I heard, did not deviate much
from the books you both co-authored. He may give other
presentations that exaggerate claims, but I have not heard them.
Your probably should be thankful that he doesn't go off the deep
end (at least not at a MUFON presentation).

Willing to listen to you and other veteran researchers, but I
have been at the UFO subject since 1953 and from 1957 - 1960
could tell you of personal experiences I have had that you would
certainly find hard to believe and I would not blame you.

Imagine that we are trying to obtain some credibility to this
subject in the midst of hoax claims and the very fantastic
nature of the phenomena itself which I have witnessed first
hand. Even though there are those on this list who think we may
all be bonkers and have no prayer of achieving credibility, we
have made an impact on the public and do have some thinking
about the possibility of extraterrestrial contact.

I, myself, am careful to keep my records straight and have never
claimed education beyond my actual achievements. I still cannot
afford a PhD, much less a few more classes to take me beyond 3
years of college. I don't know how my Dad did it when he managed
to graduate with an LLB from Yale. University courses were a lot
less expensive these days. I work at UCLA now and realize the
high cost of education.

We have an Astrobiology Society on campus and sure wish they
would be open to the UFO-alien question.


Thanks for your comments,

Bill Hamilton




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