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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jan > Jan 4

Re: New Year Agenda - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:07:19 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 07:47:51 -0500
Subject: Re: New Year Agenda - Gates


 >Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:18:31 -0600
 >Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 00:18:05 EST
 >>Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>Dennis,

 >>Hate to mention this, but if you truly understood how government
 >>and classified material is handled you would have realized that
 >>this is not correct.

 >>For example most people would _assume_ that because the Vice
 >>President of the United States is number 2 man so to speak and
 >>he should/would know everything just because of his position.
 >>The fact is that the Vice Presidents only know what they have a
 >>need-to-know. Harry Truman as VP of the US had no knowledge of
 >>the Manhatten project, yet many people might 'assume' that he
 >>should have/would have known or have knowledge just because of
 >>his position. In one of the books on the Stealth project either
 >>Clarence Kelly or Ben Rich, they mentioned that the chain of
 >>command for this highly classified compartmentalized project was
 >>from the Skunk works, to a one Star AF general, to Secretary of
 >>Defense, directly to the President. Supposedly cut out of the
 >>chain on this was the Vice President, Joint Chiefs and a host of
 >>other military people that people would _assume_ would have
 >>knowledge.


 >Robert,

 >Every situation is different. James Nance Garner, Truman's
 >predecessor, famously referred to the Vice-Presidency as not
 >being "worth a bucket of warm spit." Which it pretty much wasn't
 >in 1947.

 >Do you seriously think Dick Cheney is in a similar position
 >today? Out of the loop, as it were?

Some people were absolutly shocked that Harry Truman was out of
the loop and would have said similar to what you said above.
Whether you want to believe it or not, Cheney would not be in
the loop on many things. Some classified projects only answer to
the President. The Vice President and many senior military
officers are left out of the loop because they don't have a
need-to-know.

 >>The other great myths are just because a person has a 'Top
 >>Secret' security clearance, or is cleared for higher access, in
 >>fact means they are entitled to read and know everything about
 >>the project they are working on. This is totally bogus. Even
 >>with a clearance, you are only allowed to access document that
 >>it is determined that you have a need-to-know.

 >No one said anything about Kimball reading documents. Do you
 >think that if Roswell had been on high alert and that alien
 >bodies were brought on base to be autopsied that only one or two
 >medical personnel would have been called out to handle the
 >situation?

As I have said in another message, Kimballs testimony is just as
meaningless as the public comments from people with TS security
clearances such as Colonels on down at the Air Force who
vehemently denied the existance of the Stealth fighter until the
program was declassified. The bottom line is they did not have a
need-to-know, so they were not told.

While you may attach great significance to Kimballs story, those who
understand how the system works would realize its not significant
whether it deals with bodies being brought in, or classified documents.
The fact is he was not involved, nor did he know anything.

<snip>

 >>It is likely that many people at the Roswell air base
 >(including >highly decorated, higher ranking people, had
 >absolutly no >knowledge about what happened because they did not
 >have a >need-to-know and were not told.

 >>Bottom line is just because a miltary person doesn't know,
 >>doesn't mean it didn't happen. Likewise if a military person is
 >>'quiet' about something it may mean he had no knowledge or it
 >>may mean he knew all about it and felt duty bound by his
 >>security clearances.

 >I have never said or suggested that because Kimball didn't have
 >any knowledge of alien autopsies that bodies were ipso facto
 >never recovered at Roswell. What I have maintained all along is
 >that his testimony needs to be considered in the context of
 >claims to the contrary. I hate to keep repeating myself, but
 >what is so difficult to understand here?

If we follow your line of thinking, then we should consider the
statements/testimony or whatever you want to call it, of the
various Air Force and DOD people who emphatically and pointedly
denied the existance of the Stealth fighter for 7 plus years.
After all what they said should be considered in the historical
context...! NOT. Again they are utterly meaningless.

 >>Also keep in mind that a so called lower ranking person and or
 >>lessor person on the chain of command totem pole may in fact
 >>know much more because they were cleared, where as higher
 >>ranking officers or leaders were not cleared. Just because a
 >>person is or was not cleared for a particular subject doesn't
 >>make the person bad or evil, he or she just didn't have a
 >>need-to-know and was not cleared.

 >Understood and kept in mind. But again, we're not talking about
 >a hypothetical, post facto situation here regarding the reading
 >of classified documents after the fact. We're talking about
 >breaking events. When Truman was swept up by the latter, he was
 >properly and promptly notified of the existence of the atomic
 >bomb.

Truman was notified because he had just become President,
otherwise he wouldn't have been told or notified. Consider the
fact that Colonel Paul Tibbits and some members of his squadron
had clearances and access to information and data the Vice
President of the US did not have. Gee whiz, it was wartime and
gulliable people would expect that the VP would be
told...especially during wartime! NOT

 >If Roswell had gone on high alert and several alien bodies had
 >been brought to the base hospital, don't you think there's at
 >least a possibility -- if not a downright likelihood -- that
 >Kimball would have been made aware of same, indeed, alerted to
 >participate?

I would think they wouldn't want the base to go on high alert,
after all it telegraphs a message that something is happening.

Picture being next to a STRATCOM base and you hear how bomber
crews are being recalled from leave, and or key officers and or
people are being recalled. Then the base goes on high alert
status. Instantly tells everyone that lives around the base or
town that something big is happening or going to happen.

The better thing to do is keep it low key, use only people you
absolutly have to have or need, let the base continue on as
"normal" and do whatever you have to do quietly, with as few
people as possible. Some instances that is not possible due to
the magnitude of the event but others it is.

 >And if not, why not? That's pretty much all you need concern
 >yourself with in this specific context.

Picture interviewing bomber crews that were stationed in the
south Pacific at the end of World War 2 concerning the 509th.
While most of them would tell interesting storys about what they
did and the missions that they were on, they really couldn't
contribute anything meaningful about the operations of the 509th
because they weren't in the loop.

Now you start interviewing people who served in the 509th. Many
people would 'know' things, but they wouldn't know 'everything'
because many of them weren't told everything.

Same thing is true about Roswell. While Kimballs story may be
very interesting it doesn't contribute anything.


Cheers,

Robert





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