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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jan > Jan 3

Re: New Year Agenda - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:58:52 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:14:49 -0500
Subject: Re: New Year Agenda - Gates


 >Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:40:52 -0600
 >Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:58:50 -0400

 ><snip>

 >>I must jump in on Kevin's side on this one. Dennis you haven't
 >>done your homework as to how the witnesses were found. I was the
 >>first to talk to many of them. They were not seeking me out. I
 >>was referred to Marcel by a TV station mangager while we were
 >>twiddling our thumbs waiting for a late reporter. He had seen
 >>the newspaper article about Marcel - July 8 PM papers all over -
 >>West of Chicago. When Marcel was in nearby Houma and he began
 >>talking over short wave radio he asked Marcel about it. He was
 >>told nothing. That was in the late 1940s. I was the first to
 >>talk to Haut. I had called the Roswell DR asking for their old
 >>editor - 1978..... Long gone."What do you need? Have an article
 >>here about Walter Haut at the base.... his wife works here!!!."

 >Stan,

<snip>

 >My point, which isn't all that subtle, is this:

 >Time and again you have said that the 509th consisted of
 >hand-picked men who could keep a secret. Compartmentalization,
 >need to know, and all that. Yet when you reach them by
 >telephone, they seem to display little hesitation in being quite
 >talkative about their experiences.

 >So which is it: were they tight-lipped or not? You can't have it
 >both ways.

You can have it both ways. There were some people who were more
then willing to speak, say 40 years later after they saw a news
paper article or whatever, and yet others who apparently still
feel duty bound to not say anything.

Secrets can be kept and Secrets can be leaked.

Back in 1947 I am sure that the principles involved would have
never said anything, nor even within the 509th, a tight knit
group would everybody have had a need-to-know. Only the people
involved would have a need-to-know, and all others no matter how
high ranking, or low ranking wouldn't have the need-to-know.

Captain Kimball's non testimony is just as meaningless as the AF
public affairs officers, from Colonel on down who vehemently
denied the existance of the Stealth fighter from 1980 through
1987 or whenever it was declassified. They weren't telling lies.
They were telling the truth as they knew it. It wasn't until the
program was declassified so to speak (the existance was
declassified but alot of details were still Codeword classifed
for quite awhile after that) and cleared for release to the P/A
office did the people in the PA office "truly 'know."

 >Nor can you claim that they wouldn't have talked among
 >themselves at reunions, only to start singing when you gave them
 >a ring. Why would they share secrets with someone they couldn't
 >have known from Adam, but not with each other? Maybe this makes
 >sense to you and Randle, but it doesn't to me. I'm still waiting
 >to be enlightened.

Knowing military people, some would be more comfortable
discussing subject matter with people outside the military then
inside. Things like that weren't talked about while they were
active duty, and aren't discussed when they are retired or out
of the service.

 >>I located Dubose thru' the West Point Alumni group and called
 >>him. Remember Haut, Marcel, DuBose were all named in the flood
 >>of early articles. I sought the appropriate mortician from an
 >>old Physician; he referred me to one, he referred me to
 >>another, he referred me to Glenn and knew where he was. I got a
 >>phone listing for Bill Brazel a week after his first phone was
 >>installed. There was a great deal of other research... you know
 >>the kind that caused my phone bill to be hundreds of dollars a
 >>month

 >No one's trying to detract from your accomplishments. I'm asking
 >a very simple question: why do you think these people sang to
 >the first researcher that came calling? Figuratively speaking,
 >of course, and civilians excepted.

Does it matter? Why did Ellsburg leak the Pentagon papers? Why
do people inside the CIA leak classified documents to Bill Gertz
for publication in his articles and books? Why do others say
nothing even though the document they are supposedly protecting
has been published?

Some things like current events are leaked immediatly, some
things we will never find out about for 35 or more years, and
only because the principles involved don't feel as duty bound as
they do now.

<snip>


 >I'm tempted to say you don't know how human nature works. You
 >seem to think there's a system that insures security, when
 >nothing could be further from the truth. It's the system and the
 >people in it, which means there are no guarantees because no
 >system can absolutely prohibit Individual behavior.

True enough

Could the secret of a crashed saucer and or bodies at Roswell be
kept for 35 plus years before it leaked? An absolute yes, that
is possible.

Could a highly secretive government group have been studying
crashed saucers and alien bodies and kept it secret for many
years. An absolute yes, that is possible.

Could a highly secretive government group been directing the
TS/Codeword US sat recon program for many years and outside of a
small amout of leaks the program as a whole was kept secret for
36 years? An absolute yes, that in fact happened, and we know
this from highly classified Code Word documents that were
declassified by an Executive Order.

Again Secrets can be kept and Secrets can be leaked.

 >Exhibit A: 'When Betrayal and Paranoia Are Part of the Job' in
 >today's NY Times editorial page, about Robert Hanssen's selling
 >of FBI secrets. According to the author, Tom Mangold, Hanssen
 >sold his country out not for crass cash, but for "peer
 >approval".

As I recall it came out recently that Hanssen sold out for a bundle
of cold hard cash, amongst other things.


Cheers,

Robert





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