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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jan > Jan 3

Re: New Year Agenda - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:41:18 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 03:35:07 -0500
Subject: Re: New Year Agenda - Rudiak

 >Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 07:54:27 -0600
 >Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:05:21 EST
 >>Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >Your boorishness is a thing of beauty. It's so dependable and
 >exquisite that I have no hesitation in recommending it as a
 >model for would-be boors everywhere.

Dear Dennis,

Your hypocrisy is also things of beauty.

Perhaps Dennis could explain why he earned the nickname "The
Hyena" during his stint as editor of the MUFON Journal. It
wasn't boorish me who hung that title on him. Maybe it had
something to do with his attack-dog, grenade-throwing,
impulsive, petulant, flippant, snide, sarcastic, and insulting
side that he frequently displays here on UpDates, such as this
very post attacking me as a "boor". It is so "dependable and
exquisite", that it practically invites "boorishness" in

 >For a perfect example of same, I hope everyone has gone back
and >read the links you posted, one of which I had posted
earlier. In >case they haven't, here they are again:


Yes, everybody please read them, so that you can better
understand my so-called "boorish" response to Kimball, which was
really a lengthy, detailed response to Stacy's posting of
Kimball's Web page remarks. I thought I was being critical but
honest in my assessment of Kimball's various statements and
importance as a witness:


 >Read carefully the Q & A exchange between Rudiak and Kimball
 >which I arranged,

First of all, note that Stacy failed to note my original
response to his initial post, which supplies a context in which
all this happened. If you just read Stacy's remark's, it sounds
like my very lengthy, detailed response is riddled with insults
of Kimball, which is entirely untrue. Where Kimball was merely
expressing an opinion, I noted that he was expressing an
opinion. Where Kimball made a valid point based on personal
knowledge, I thought I gave him credit for it. The only time I
was sarcastic was in response to Kimball's own remarks about the
medical staff spending a lot of time off-duty down at the base
recreation sites, that everything seemed normal, therefore
nothing happened.

My true sarcasm in that post was directed at Dennis Stacy,
because he repeatedly accused Roswell authors like Stan Friedman
and Kevin Randle of suppressing Kimball's statements in their
books. It could hardly be censorship, since their awareness of
Kimball didn't even exist until _after_ their books had been
published or were in press. (Stacy _falsely_ accused them of
suppression, but I'm the one who is the boor.)

When Dennis complained about my tone, here is another response I
wrote saying that it was prompted by his previous behavior on
Updates. I agreed to tone down my remarks since he seemed to be
playing it straight for once, but again noted the absurdity of
much of his time-travel-witness-testimony-suppression argument:


Also as Dennis says, he "arranged" the Q & A with Kimball. I
wasn't responding directly to Kimball. I was responding to
Stacy. But Saint Stacy, the innocent one, then did what he
usually loves to do, namely stir the pot. He shot my UpDates
post off to Kimball (whether he sent the whole response with its
complete context or just selected quotes to stir up Kimball I
don't know), which prompted the response from Kimball below.

 >and then tell me who's the Gentleman and who's the Boor here.

Read _all_ the exchanges, then judge for yourself.

 >Kimball was willing to cooperate with Roswell investigators. One
 >would have thought that Rudiak might have been curious and
 >courteous at a minimum. But when Kimball wouldn't say what
 >Rudiak wanted to hear, the latter's instincts to shoot the
 >messenger took over. Notice how easily he slips into his typical
 >snideness. After Rudiak's second or third allusion to swimming
 >pools and golf courses, Kimball has understandably had enough
 >and responds as follows:

Just more bunk from Dennis, who loves beating a dead horse to
death. Dennis is still deliberately leaving out critical
information to properly judge the context of my remarks. Here is
what Kimball originally wrote on his Web-site that prompted my
so-called "snideness:"


"You would think that with all of the books that have been
written, TV shows fictionalizing the incident, and the coverage
the summer of 1997 in the media (major articles in the New York
Times, cover stories in Time Magazine and Popular Science) that
there must have been a great furor at the Base at that time
(July 1947). To the contrary, life went on as usual. Most of the
medical staff spent their time at the Officer's Club swimming
pool every afternoon after duty hours. The biggest excitement
was the cut-throat hearts game in the BOQ and an intense bingo,
bango bungo golf game at the local nine hole golf course for a
nickel a point!! There was absolutely NO unusual activity on the
Base, no base alerts, no hysteria, no panic in July 1947. Life
went on as usual."

Notice that it was Kimball, not I, who painted this picture of
light-hearted frolicking by medical personnel off-hours. The
purpose of this was his own attempt to discredit the idea that
anything unusual might have happened at the base. To this
imagery I responded to Stacy:


"So because this one person saw no unusual activity at the base
hospital-while he was on duty, or when he was on the golf
course, or down at the base swimming hole or drinking hole, we
are supposed to conclude that nothing at all unusual could have
happened anywhere on the base at all hours of the day and night.
That makes zero sense."

Much further down in the post, in a summary statement I wrote:

"This witness was a junior medical officer at the time with no
general access to all parts of the base, and can only tell us
what he observed from a very limited perspective, much of it
seeming to be the base golf course and swimming pool."

This was sarcastic, to be sure, but it was Kimball himself who
placed himself there when off-duty painting a picture of
complete normalcy at the base. I was again making the obvious
point that Kimball would be unlikely to know what was happening
at one of the base hangars or at the hospital or in the field
when he was off duty and in a completely different location from
where the action would be taking place.

And then further down, I contrasted Kimball's statements that
nothing happened with a base nurse interviewed by OMNI Magazine
in 1995 just before she died. She stated she didn't have any
personal knowledge of a crash or goings-on at the hospital, but
didn't dismiss the possibility like Kimball did:

"However, she felt that a crash and body recovery was plausible,
based on her readings. 'I know that something went on, and I
know it was very hush-hush. And I know I didn't know anything
about it at the time. It was closed up tight as a drum, you
know, by the base officials.' She also said she heard nothing
directly from base personnel, but that was the norm at Roswell.
Everybody kept their mouths shut if they knew anything

"So here's another witness in a comparable position to Kimball
who does not fully agree with his assessment. She had some
awareness of something unusual going on and of it being
suppressed, even if Kimball did not. Maybe she didn't spend as
much time as he did on the golf course and playing cards. And
she certainly didn't share Kimball's opinion that various base
personnel would never engage in a cover-up. If they knew
something important, they would not talk about it."

So that was my third and last mention of Kimball being on the
golf course and playing cards, something I only raised because
Kimball brought it up to begin with to discredit the idea of
something unusual at the base. I never said he spent most of his
time doing these things or was negligent in his duties, though
Kimball apparently took it that way after Dennis chose to
forward these remarks onto him.

I also don't think it out of line to employ a little satire to
point out the absurdity of this witness' line of reasoning: "I
didn't know anything, therefore nothing happened."

If I overdid it, so be it. Those are the only three instances in
which I think I could be remotely be construed as being
sarcastic (or "boorish", to use Dennis' hyperbole) toward Mr.
Kimball's remarks. Read the entirely of that post, and I think
you'll find I give him full credit when he made what I thought
to be a valid point (some extracted examples are also reproduced
below). I also accepted much of what he said at face value,
though I could easily have questioned it.

 >"The primary reason I prepared the web site on Roswell was to
 >provide what I thought was first hand information as to what did
 >NOT take place at the Base Hospital in the summer of 1947. You
 >call me a 'pretty minor character [who] personally knew a very
 >limited amount.' If by this comment you are saying I didn't know
 >what was or was not going [on] in the base hospital you are dead
 >wrong. You have belittled me and demeaned me by your gratuitous
 >remarks about my time at the golf course, swimming pool, and
 >drinking hole. I like to think I performed my duties well and
 >conscientiously - at least well enough to be promoted and given
 >more responsible assignments at higher levels of command and
 >complete over 20 years of active service."

Please note where Kimball called my remarks "gratuitous" about
him spending time down down at the golf course, swimming pool,
and "drinking hole." But it was Kimball who brought the subject
up and made an issue of it. He stated that most of the medical
staff went off duty in the afternoon and spent their time at
these recreation sites. Everything was "usual" at the base.
They played cards, they swam, they played golf. They heard
nothing. There were no alien autopsies.

Here is a portion of a very lengthy e-mail I wrote to Kimball
after Dennis chose to stir things up. This was also posted to
Updates, and is a another detailed and important contextual
reference Dennis chose to leave out:


"I'm sorry if you took it that way. But you also opened your
remarks with all those statements about how nothing unusual was
going on or being said in these various social and recreational
areas, therefore nothing happened. I have to assume that you had
to have been at the golf course, swimming pool, officers club,
etc. when off-duty in order to have formed your impressions. If
not, then why bring it up?"

"Furthermore, unless people at Roswell routinely gossiped about
classified matters in these settings, your comments were hardly
relevant. I don't know -- did they? Maybe over a few drinks at
the Officers Club (what I facetiously referred to as the
"drinking hole")?"

 >Kimball went on to become a Professor of Political Science at
 >the University of Utah. Rudiak, by all appearances and available
 >evidence, went on to become a Professional Boor.

A boorish remark by someone accusing me of being a boor. Like I
said, this is nothing but typical Stacian hypocrisy. Everybody
on the list who reads Dennis' posts knows it. He is one of the
most insulting people here. He loves to get in his licks and
then play the martyred innocent when people respond back.

 >When I recently reintroduced Kimball to this List I described
 >him as the second medical officer in command. I was working from
 >memory. When I went back and reread his testimony I recognized
 >my mistake and immediately corrected myself here.

 >But in Rudiak's world there is no such thing as an innocent
 >mistake, so naturally I was accused to trying to inflate
 >Kimball's credentials.

Kimball was always little more than spear-holder in the opera.
Stacy for the last 3 years has tried to pump him into a major
witness of some kind, which he never was. He was the
third-in-command medical officer by rank, the medical supply
officer. I'm not even sure he was an M.D. This isn't to belittle
Kimball or his work, but to point out he was a pretty minor
character, just like most people at the base. Not only might he
not have a need-to-know when on duty, he may have been off-duty
and somewhere else when all the action allegedly took place at
the base hospital or elsewhere at the base. It was a _big_ base.

 >Kimball's credentials speak for themselves, and I hope everyone
 >will go back and read his original remarks.

Yes, please do, and my complete remarks, and my follow-up
remarks to Kimball and to Stacy.

 >Rudiak would have you believe that they are immaterial,

More serious misrepesentation by Stacy. Read the actual posts,
where I said exactly the opposite.

 >From my original post....


...here are some excerpts where I comment on some of Kimball's

Regarding conversations Kimball had with, Jack Comstock, the
chief medical officer in 1995 regarding alien bodies at the base

"Despite these obvious caveats, I see no reason at this point to
assume Kimball didn't talk with Comstock, or that he
misrepresented what Comstock told him, or that Comstock knew
anything and was concealing it from Kimball. I take these
statements at face value for the time being. Nothing unusual
happened at the base hospital in July 1947 that either of these
men was aware of."


"This is an interesting perspective, but again does not
absolutely rule out that Comstock would simply not talk about it
with Kimball or anyone else, no matter how good friends they may
have been. However, I have no reason to doubt Kimball's opinion
on this at the moment."

Regarding Roswell mortician Glenn Dennis:

"Kimball states he never spoke with Dennis, and I have no reason
to doubt this. But its also conceivable that another non-expert
like Kimball could have posed as the base mortuary officer and
called Dennis for advice."

Note how my remarks here are just full of "boorishness" and lack
of acknowledgement for what Kimball had to say

Here is another example in my e-mail to Kimball:


">I like to think I performed my duties well and
 >conscientiously - at least well enough to be promoted and given more
 >responsible assignments at higher levels of command and complete over 20
 >years of active service."

"I never questioned that. What I questioned was exactly what you
would have known in the position that you occupied. That's why I
referred to you as a junior officer and a minor player at the
base. Absence of gossip down at the officers club or on the golf
course doesn't tell us much. What was relevant was whatever
direct knowledge you may have had or not had. And I believe I
fully acknowledged your statements about the base hospital and
Glenn Dennis as being noteworthy. I also acknowledged your
personal evaluation of Blanchard's character, and noted that it
actually supports the idea that Blanchard would not have acted
on his own in issuing the infamous crashed disk press release,
but would have had it approved from higher up, or may even have
been ordered to put it out."

And in a follow-up response to Stacy:


"In the end what we have is the following:

"1. Kimball wasn't personally aware of anything unusual going on
at the base hospital while he was there, or in other places he
apparently frequented for recreation, like the golf course,
officer's club, swimming pool, etc. (except for the hospital,
these are all irrelevant unless there was loose chatter going on
here, but would there have been?)

"2. The hospital head whom he spoke to in 1995 wasn't aware of
anything unusual (or so he told Kimball). Nor had he spoken of
it before, though he was a good friend (but would he have done
so even if he knew something?)

"3. Blanchard never mentioned anything about it to him though he
knew him well later in his carrer (but why would he?)

"4. Kimball never heard of Glenn Dennis and never spoke to him
for advice on caskets and preservation, even though Kimball
would have acted as the mortuary officer had the occasion

"That's about it. Nearly everything else he said was opinion.
Like most witnesses, he's a pretty minor character and
personally knew a very limited amount. It's nonetheless worth
noting. Just another piece to the puzzle."

But according to Stacy, I treated everything Kimball had to say
as "immaterial" and was completely "boorish" towards him.

 >when the
 >exact opposite is true, a concept that continues to sail over
 >his head. Whether one agrees with them or not, they have to be
 >considered and weighed in the context of claims made that the
 >base was in a state of high alert and that alien autopsies were
 >conducted at the base hospital. Kimball simply says that if
 >either or both of these events had happened, he would have been
 >aware of it/them by virtue of his position.

This was all dealt with in the original posts. Stacy continues
to beat a dead horse. There is no reason for Kimball to have
necessarily known about anything, as others besides boorish me
have been pointing out. This is the real concept that continues
to sail over Stacy's head.

 >Take them or leave them, but don't totally ignore them, as
 >Rudiak would have you do. Kimball's remarks are clearly
 >material, as any court-appointed attorney could tell you.

Spoken like a true court-appointed attorney, distorting the
actual record and beating his fist on the table because he has
nothing else to say.

I hope this will be my last post on the matter. Stacy can go
nurse his grudges somewhere else.

David Rudiak

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