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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2002 > Jan > Jan 2

Re: New Year Agenda - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:26:40 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:36:51 -0500
Subject: Re: New Year Agenda - Randle

 >Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:14:48 -0600
 >Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 09:15:49 EST
 >>Subject: Re: New Year Agenda
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net


 >>The problem is, if the event took place and it was truly
 >>classified, then those who were not involved would not be
 >>expected to know anything about it. You simply do not discuss
 >>classified material with those who are not cleared to hear it.
 >>Yes, you can talk all you want about senators and politicians
 >>compromising classified material, but we're talking about a
 >>special unit that dealt with highly classified material all the
 >>time. If a specific pilot was not involved and now claims the
 >>event didn't happen because, if it had, he would have heard
 >>about it, that just doesn't wash. No, there is no reason to
 >>believe that he would have heard about regardless of who he was,
 >>who his friends were, or what security clearances he might have

 >>I speak from experience here. I watched people get into trouble
 >>for "talking out of school" and we weren't dealing with any
 >>earth- shattering secrets. This refrain, that had it happened, I
 >>would have known, is false and anyone who had dealt with
 >>classified material and security clearances knows that.




 >Hasn't this situation ever struck you as, uh, well, a bit, shall
 >we say...incongruous?

 >I mean, here's the most classified secret in the history of the
 >world, the greatest moment in human life -- and only a handful
 >of dedicated men sworn to secrecy know the truth. How then, pray
 >tell, did the public at large ever learn of it?

 >This Band of Brothers doesn't know you, Friedman, Schmitt,
 >Berliner or any other journalist or ufologist from Joe or Adam,
 >and practically all you've got to do is show up in person, pen
 >and paper or videocamera in hand, and they seem only too willing
 >to spill the beans on the world's best kept (sic) Top Secret to
 >a complete outsider.

 >I may be exaggerating a little for rhetorical effect, of course,
 >but I've always been curious as to how you've managed to
 >reconcile this apparent contradiction in your mind?

 >As for saying this tightly knit band wouldn't talk amongst
 >itself, but apparently had little compunction against talking to
 >a perfect stranger... well, we all like to have our cake and eat
 >it, too.

 >I guess we should be thankful that, when the chips were down and
 >the press came calling, they really couldn't keep a secret,
 >after all. Makes you wonder whether or not they served alcohol
 >at all those reunions, doesn't it?

 >Dennis Stacy

Dennis -

This is really a very good point and one that I've thought about
quite a bit. The answer, in part, is very simple and in part,
very complex. First, the simple answer. The situation in 1947
was different than it was some thirty or forty years later when
we all began to search from some information. In 1947 these men
were trained in keeping secrets and that they were not supposed
to share classified information with those who were not cleared
to hear it. In, oh let's say, 1990, some of these same men, who
had been out of the service for more than forty years, assumed,
incorrectly, that much of what they knew was no longer
classified and told what the knew. Pappy Henderson, for example,
when he saw an article about the case in one of the supermarket
tabloids, told his wife, "Well, since it's in the newspaper, I
guess I can tell you about it now." His belief that it having
been compromised permitted him to discuss it was, technically,
wrong but it did provide him with an excuse for telling his wife
a secret that, according to what she told me and Stan, he had
been dying for years to tell her.

Others just didn't say much of anything. Patrick Saunders, for
example, when I talked to him, made light of the situation and
talked of (and here I hesitate to mention it only because of the
recent discussions on this list), "Little green men". He meant
it in the most derogatory way, suggesting that nothing had
happened in Roswell, yet, he bought many copies of my books
(thanks Colonel Saunders) and on the flyleaf wrote, "This is the
truth and I never told anybody anything." He sent these to close
friends and family, as a way of suggesting that the core story,
of a crashed object and dead pilots, had some validity. This way
he didn't violate his oath and didn't really reveal anything
himself. I was lucky to get a copy of one of those statements,
sent to me by a friend of Saunders who thought I should see it.

Edwin Easley was always very careful in what he said, telling me
over and over that he had been sworn to secrecy. What he told me
were the things that he didn't see as that important, such as
Mack Brazel being held in the guest house on base, or the
general deployment of his soldiers, but little in the way of
detail about the actual events.

Sheridan Cavitt never revealed much at all, except to tell us
things that were contradictory about his involvement and where
he was in July, 1947. Interestingly, when I asked him what rank
Rickett had been in 1947, Cavitt, said, "Well, our ranks were
classified, but I guess it doesn't matter now," which, of
course, was correct. Since Rickett was retired and would not be
involved in anymore CIC investigations, it didn't matter that I
learned he had been a master sergeant.

And, here, the only time I saw Cavitt get annoyed as he denied
everything, was when I posed a question to him about the field
he had walked and he asked, "Bill Rickett tell you that?"
Rickett told people about what he had seen, and this annoyed the
hell out of Cavitt. Rickett, by the way, should have known
better, but I think, given what had happened to him during his
life, was a little less reluctant to tell what he had seen.

So, it wasn't as if we all showed up at the reunions and these
guys began to spill their guts. It was a process of learning
what went on with little hints here and there. And, there is the
real distinct possibility that some of those who told Kent it
never happened, actually knew that it did, but were following
the dictates of 1947 and keeping the secret, as they were
required to do.

And others didn't talk outside of the family. Melvin Brown, for
example, told his daughters about these activities, but didn't
talk to outsiders about them. We are left with the second-hand
stories because we missed our chance to get the first-hand

When you boil it down, the Roswell story, as most of us know it,
that has come from military sources, was put together through
multiple interviews with the men involved and their family
members. Many of those military members were reluctant to talk,
told a little bit about their involvement, but might have held
back quite a bit more. I think here that these men just didn't
want to lie to us and they didn't want to violate their oaths,
and said the bare minimum they could. Most of us are basically
honest and when confronted with a situation in which a
bald-faced lie would extract us, try to weasel our way out of
it. We try not to lie without revealing that which we know.
Yeah, I can think of many examples in which people looked us
right in the eye and lied their asses off. But, I think for the
majority, it just wasn't quite that simple.

Cavitt, for example, lied his ass off. Even after he had talked
to Colonel Weaver and they concocted that ridiculous interview
in which Cavitt said he had picked up the balloon with Marcel
(after telling me that he had never been involved in the
recovery of a balloon), told me, after I described what both
Rickett and Marcel said about him, "Well, that sounds like me,
but I wasn't there." Looked me right in the eye and told me a
lie that he had to know would be exposed as a lie in a few
months (or maybe he didn't think the Air Force would publish the
transcript of the interview).

So, it wasn't as if we showed up and these guys all told what
they knew. We got bits and pieces of it and tried to fit it
together into a whole. Sometimes we fit it together wrong and
had to backtrack, trying a new way. Sometimes we caught a break
and learned some very interesting things that we shouldn't have
learned. Pappy Henderson's erroneous conclusion that he could
now talk about it helped. Jesse Marcel, telling his buddies
about this so that the story could be found helped. The hints
from Easley, Saunders, Joe Briley, Walter Haut, and many others
helped. The information from civilian sources such as Bill
Brazel and Sheriff Wilcox's daughters helped. And the crap from
Gerald Anderson, Glenn Dennis, Jim Ragsdale, and a couple of
others certainly sent us in the wrong direction.

This is my complex answer to your simple question. It should
suggest that this wasn't just a process of getting the
information from the first contact, but a long and involved
process which failed more often than not. It all goes back to
the idea of how many we talked to who said they knew nothing or
nothing happened in Roswell. Lorenzo K. Kimball comes to mind
here. He was, not the second commanding officer, but the medical
supply officer. He was not in a position to be involved and had
no special medical knowledge that would have made his
involvement necessary. That he knew nothing actually tells us
nothing about the case (and I believe here, he became involved
because he thought his friend, Jesse B. Johnson was being
maligned... he knew that Johnson wasn't a pathologist as Schmitt
and I had suggested and wanted to set that part of the record
straight). Those who knew nothing were just eliminated, but
there were lots of them. Others provided small hints and others,
such as Marcel and Rickett provided some very detailed


* I am engaging here in what is known as work avoidance. I
should be working on my science fiction novel (Oh, my God,
Randle writes science fiction!) that is due at the end of the
month, rather than answering, at great length, some of these
questions... but hell, this is more fun than working on a novel.


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