From: Mike Beaver <yoda@foxinternet.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:41:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 18:52:27 -0400
Subject: UpDate: Re: Spacenapping - Beaver


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:02:27 +0100
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Spacenapping [was: Re: Selling Files]
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >In my experience of UK abduction research I have encountered a
 >number of cases where there is no question that an abduction
 >like experience was reported by the witness whilst they had not
 >physically travelled anywhere.


Dear Jenny:

I have no contention with your arguement at this point. I have
removed your examples of these cases for brevity. I have little
doubt that they are as you describe them. Below I will leave in
your entire personal experience so as not to gut the starting
basis of your arguement completely.

 >I even have had a deeply persuasive first hand experience. My
 >boyfriend had stayed the weekend, driven off to work on his
 >motorcycle in freezing weather and I had been concerned for his
 >safety as he left. Being early I sat back on the settee in front
 >of the fire worrying about his 30 mile ride. Then I heard and
 >saw him return, we embraced and I said that I was pleased that
 >he had turned back. It was as real as any experience I have ever
 >had. Except that moments later I blinked and he was gone. Indeed
 >I was sat back on the settee and could appreciate that in the
 >hot room I must have fallen back to sleep, had a vivid dream
 >that fulfilled my wishes and believed in it as real.
 >Now the key here was that I was able to confirm that he never
 >had come back - but driven on to work safely. This entire vivid
 >and utterly convincing experience was an hallucination. Yet I am
 >well aware that if I had had no way to 'quiz' the subject of my
 >vision (eg if it had been my dead auntie or an alien) I would to
 >this day not have any way to know how real this experience
 >literally was. And in real abduction situations that's the
 >problem witnesses tend to face.

 >Now taken together the above two sets of data tell me loud and
 >clear that there is a huge probability that even utterly
 >convinced witnesses (who could pass a lie detector test - as I
 >bet I could have done) might be certain they have had a true
 >experience but that it is at least viable that it was a
 >visionary (not a physically real) one.

Here is where I will jump in and attempt to state, through my
and other peoples experiences, where your statement, and final
assumptions are completely incorrect and hopelessly bound in
outdated, what some feel are "scientific," newtonian logic where
that which is physical, possibly solid or at least an energy,
gas, etc., that is completely physical, or it's something which
is hallucinatory and utterly created within the cerebral cortex.

In limiting the possibilities you have considered to either
physical or cerebral you have absolutely and completely left out
what is far more likely to be the cause of much of it. Here
goes:

First I will give 4 experiences of my own and then an outline of
one neighbor I interviewed within my own lengthy search for the
truth about UFOs.

1) Waking up one evening I saw my (then) girlfriend sitting up
in bed with her back against the headboard of the bed. She was
much closer to me than normal. She looked down and smiled at me
a rather evil looking grin. She then dissapeared and was then,
instantly, laying in her bed sleeping as normal.

2) The famous Chuck Norris passed me in a Houston, Tx. hotel to
check out the buffet while taking a break from his vigorous
workout upstairs. We, very briefly got into a conversation about
a mutual acquaintance of ours. At one moment it appeared as if
he was going to hit me. Though there was no way for me to truly
know this, I knew that he wasn't the type of person to just hit
someone for now reason. So I made no effort to defend myself or
react in any way. Then, instantly, this false reality,
"hallucination" as you would term it, dissappeared. He was then
standing there normally.

3) Driving down Memorial Drive one night in Houston I see a man,
from the waist up, life size with no 3rd dimension of depth, as
if he were being projected onto a movie screen, life size, in a
trench coat, walking down the middle of a road. I saw this
image, which I couldn't see through, as if I were up in the air
looking down over his head. This, like the one above one, wasn't
an image I saw _within_ my head. It was a phenomena which was
being viewed in the _external_ world mixed with all of the other
normal phenomena. I saw him _outside_ the car as if he were
standing in the middle of my hood of my Pontiac Lemans. After
this image, vision, _not_hallucination_, dissapeared I wondered
why it had appeared. The middle of my car was on the yellow line
I had just seen a vision of. So I slowed down and got over into
my lane like most normal drivers drive. Coming out of the, very
lengthy, curve I passed his actual physical body, missing him
by, possibly, a whole inch. I slowed the car, looked back at
him. His physical body was still standing on the yellow line in
the middle of the road. I got very frightened and took off.
Parapsychologists call this an out of body image/projection of a
living person. 4) Backing up in a very quick fashion in my
father's black Lincoln Continental Mark IV I began to see, like
the above, a vision, outside my head, which appeared as a flat,
not see through, no depth, image just above, and at the heigth
of my dashboard. The image was of myself in the future being
viewed from sitting in the back seat of the same vehicle. In the
vision I turn the car and hit a small tree. Not wanting to
fulfill this vision I am very careful to wait until I have
passed all the trees before cutting the wheel to turn onto the
road. Unfortunately I don't see one small tree. Then I fulfill
the vision of the future I have just had. I hit this small tree.

Now that you have my 4 non-physical and non-hallucinatory,
external, phenomena I will add one more piece, an interview,
which helps clear up something about how all this fits in with
the abduction phenomena, and your fallacies as well.

Interviewing my above neighbor at an apartment complex I find
that he, and his family, have had a very long history of
abductions. He calls them dreams, as you would. He,
_absolutely_, believes they are only dreams. Everyone in his
family has scoop marks in the lower leg area. Everyone in the
same family has the same dreams. As he's going to sleep, in the
twilight state, he finds his leg being lifted by the greys and
himself being pulled down the hallway; the wind rushing by he
can feel in his hair. The difference between he and his
brother's dream is that in his dream he finds himself being
pulled down the hall. In his brothers dream his brother sees him
being pulled down the hall. In other words the brothers dream
confirms his completely. Everyone in the family, including the
mother have all participated in these "dreams." As I said, they
all have the scoop marks and can all recall exactly which nights
they all participated in these "dreams." He even relates, most
recently, of a fairly close sighting he had while walking into
our apartment complex. Though this was, obviously, in the awake
state, he considers it all part of the "dream."

My father once saw the shadow of a circular craft come over him
when he was looking down at a swamp/marsh floor on an oil rig.
By the time he looked up it was gone. Nothing I could say would
help him believe it was anything more than something explainable
like a cloud. A perfectly circular cloud that moves faster than
sound? I've seen some unbelievably strange clouds, but that sure
beats the cake. The lady who tried hypnotizing me, that John
Scheussler took me to to investigate my 2 close encounters,
tells the story of her father who went insane after being
followed all day down a freeway by 'them' because his mind just
couldn't handle it. A prominent IRC contact of mine related to
me about one member of a family who had a close encounter who
committed suicide. The whole family had the encounter
_together_. Only one member committed suicide. My own close
encounters played tricks with my head as well. Until I had my
second encounter, in the company of other witnesses who saw it
as well, half my mind kept saying, "You know you saw it." And
the other half kept saying, "Your going nuts." This circular
battle in my head continued until I had the other eyewitnesses
confirm my second encounter and my sanity.

So, I've set out 2 different types of data here and will now
attempt to piece them together so that we can all see that
physical and cerebrally created aren't the only 2 possibilities
in these matters. Try to step out of your box please.

1) If one looks at my own personal experiences with an open mind
one can see clearly that they are of a spiritual nature and not
of an hallucinatory one. One doesn't hallucinate the future
correctly (the tree in the park incident). Nor does one
hallucinate that someone physical will appear around the corner
successfully 3 seconds after one has had the hallucination
(another precognitive vision?, or just an out of body projection
of a living being?, U be the judge). Remember, hallucinations
are false and have no real connection with actual external
phenomena. Unless you wish to term all spirits hallucinations,
something only parapsychological neophytes would do (not you
certainly?), then you can clearly see the success of my
arguement over your neutonian physical/cerebral arguement here.

2) My father, myself, the man who went insane, my neighber, and
the person who committed suicide (5 different people mind you)
all couldn't accept the reality of what they encountered. As I
said, my mind wouldn't settle down into believing what I saw was
real until I was in the presence of others who saw it as well,
confirming that I wasn't going insane. By the way, the children
who were with us in that car all had their brains switched into
neutral during that encounter. It was as if someone had shot
them with the a freeze ray. They didn't move a single hair
during the whole sighting. And, for those of you who believe
this is an evil phenomena I will point out here that evil
rarely, as far as I understand it, cares for the psychological
well being of a young human child.

If this were a phenomena that was created within the mind,
only, then it is highly likely that the mind would be able to
handle it better. In general organisms evolve WITHOUT such
self destructive behavior. I'm definitely not discounting that
many of these things could be merely hallucinations. But I
am putting forth that:

a) radar doesn't hallucinate

b) hallucinations, by their very definition, don't involve,
properly, that which is real and external and physical and,
definitely not of a correct precognitive nature.

I am _properly_ putting forth here that your physical/cerebrally
hallucinated categories are not only short sighted but clearly
fail to encompass much of the phenomena that the mind has such a
hard time believing is real in _many_ cases.

Go back to the drawing board and add that which you obviously
have a hard time throwing into the equasion. It's called spirit.
Read a couple thousand parapsychology reports done at major
universities and realize that we are spirits in physical bodies
and that... Oh well I'm wearing myself out here trying to get
you to understand that which you obviously can't put into the
equasion. Maybe in your next incarnation it will be easier for
you to acknowledge what you are. Oh well I tried.

Sincerely;

Mike Beaver
yoda@foxinternet.net
http://web3.foxinternet.net/yoda/index.html
ICQ # 15482206