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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2000 > Jul > Jul 7

UpDate: Re: Velez, Andrus And Carpenter - Velez

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 03:56:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 09:08:31 -0400
Subject: UpDate: Re: Velez, Andrus And Carpenter - Velez

 >Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 12:13:41 -0500 (CDT)
 >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
 >Subject: Re: Velez, Andrus And Carpenter
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 17:25:40 -0400
 >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >>Subject: Velez, Andrus And Carpenter
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hello All,

 >>I spoke with Walt Andrus (who is the head of MUFON) today.
 >>(Weds. 7/5/00) To make a long story short, he _confirmed_ the
 >>fact that John Carpenter did in fact _sell_abductee_files to
 >>Robert Bigelow for an undisclosed amount of money.


 >>To All Abductees: Make absolutely sure to secure written and
 >>signed assurances that your privacy and anonymity will be
 >>protected and maintained when contacting -any- abduction
 >>researcher. An honest and ethical researcher will have no
 >>problem providing and signing that type of an agreement.

 ><snip again>

 >>This whole thing has made me sick to my stomach.

 >>Ufology Sucks Bigtime! Period. It's a disorganized, unregulated,
 >>sh*tty mess. This most recent example is the direct result of
 >>_dis-unity,_ a lack of communication, and basic agreements among
 >>participating groups and individuals. Ufology needs a 'review
 >>board' of some kind. Until an "Umbrella" organization with 'real
 >>teeth' is formed and put into place, incidents such as this one
 >>involving the selling of private files will continue to happen.
 >>_If_ there are no stops in place to prevent it.

 >I've been reading all this saga with some curiosity and feel I
 >should mention a few things.

 >First of all, a proposal to theoretically prevent such abuse and
 >problems was discussed several years ago by excellent (and
 >therefore ignored) abduction researcher David Gotlib. He drafted
 >a "Code of Ethics" for abduction researchers, and it was
 >distributed in the Bulletin of Anomalous Experience (BAE) and
 >brought out at the infamous MIT conference. The problem is that
 >_no_one_ has adopted his proposed guidelines and ethical
 >standards because it seems that no researcher wants to answer to
 >anyone other than him - or herself. Ufology has no peer group
 >per se.

 >If anyone has a copy of this code online, it might be a good
 >idea to post it here and start some reasonable discussion with
 >the goal of having at least list members consider adhering to

 >Second, a similar code was drafted many years ago for ufology in
 >general, but also ignored.

 >The trouble is that each abduction researcher has a different
 >approach and methodology so that standards are very difficult to
 >agree upon. Even something as innocuous as a set of guidelines
 >for an abductee support group will be difficult to standardize
 >until the ufological community gets its act together. (I printed
 >a set of such guidelines in my book Abductions and Aliens, in
 >case anyone is interested.)

 >This even harks back to an earlier argument (sorry, thread) here
 >about "Who speaks for ufology?" There is no one governor or
 >spokesperson for ufology at this point, let alone a governing or
 >review body. There are some who _think_ they are, but none who
 >are universally accepted as such. We need a benevolent dictator
 >in ufology, perhaps. I nominate Errol.

 >Nobody in particular

Hi Chris,

Finally, a breath of fresh air!

The end result of all this should be a new awareness on the part
of witnesses and experiencers regarding the protection of their
own rights to privacy and anonymity. Your suggestions along with
some comments I received from the Texas Sasquatch (Dennis Stacy)
constitute some of the 'few' practical suggestions to come out
of all this.

Allow me to quote a passage from a personal note that Dennis
Stacy sent to me.

What is the best possible outcome of this situation?

I would suggest that it is an ultimate meeting of minds between
experiencers and investigators that results in an agreed upon
document, or release, to be signed and notarized by both
parties. Said document should protect both parties. A clause
should say that nothing evolving from the investigation,
hypnosis sessions and/or transcripts included, can be made
public without the experiencer's express written permission.
Another clause should say something to the effect that, while I
realize the potential of negative psychological (and possible
physical) effects involved in the procedure(s) I am about to
agree to, I willingly accept such consequences and hereby
absolve my interlocutor/investigator of same.

Yes, of course a no doubt money-grubbing attorney would have to
be involved at some point.


I am in complete agreement with both of you. If nothing else,
some kind of protections need to be put in place so that there
isn't any "repeat performance" of this unsavory business in the

I would also like to take this opportunity to bow out of this
mess as 'gracefully' as I can. I had nothing to do with it other
than stumbling across it in my travels. I checked it out as
thoroughly as I could, and then I reported it. Period. End of
story. What people do with the information is now entirely up to
them. If someone wishes to investigate then fine, go for it. If
no one cares and they choose to ignore that's fine too. I did
what I had to do and what I believed to be the 'right thing.' My
work is done here. There is now at least a healthy _public_
dialog going on regarding issues of privacy and ethics. That is
all I had hoped for. For me, this was about _protecting innocent
people,_ not pointing fingers or going after individuals. Them,
and judgement upon them, I leave to the Laws of Karma.

According to Walt Andrus MUFON has launched an investigation
into this matter and I'll just sit back with everybody else and
await the findings of that report.

Dianne Lovett: You can stop sending copies of my postings to
MUFON and to Robert Bigelow. They _know_ already. I forwarded
copies to them the day I posted it. I never do anything behind
someone's back.

Here's a novel idea! How about _asking me_ if it's ok to use my
posting to contact these folks yourself, or better yet, you
could have asked if your own efforts would conflict or duplicate
with whatever efforts/investigating I was already engaged in.
Not only do you use my posts as an "intro" with these people
without asking me, but you step all over my toes with complete

It didn't happen, but... you could have screwed up something
important that I was following up on by running in and
"alerting" the very people I was investigating. Like going to a
dope dealer that is under observation and saying to him: "By the
way, the Police are checking you out, are you really engaged in
the selling of illegal drugs?"

How much information do you expect to get that way? "Oh yes
officer, the drugs are under the sofa. Will you be taking me
away now?"

Fortunately, your own personal campaign did not interfere with
the one I was conducting. I guess I can forget about talking to
Bigelow, as you have already interjected yourself into the
situation and taken care of it. I wouldn't get beans out of him
now. Thanks to you he's now "on alert" about the issue.

BTW, in spite of what Bigelow may have told you regarding how
many files had 'blacked out names and addresses', I have info
from one of the _principles_ involved to the contrary. You
really should have coordinated with me/talked to me, before
running off copies of my posts and sending them to MUFON and
Bigelow along with _demands_ for answers. I don't operate that
way myself. If it was the other way around, I would _never_ have
done something like that to you. It would be tantamount to
setting you up as a target.

I'm officially out of this.

You can individually do with it (the info I provided) whatever you

At least, now you _all_ know!

Chris, you signed off:

Nobody in particular

Don't worry man, you'll always be a 'somebody' to me. :)

Regards to all, I will continue to follow these posts and any
further developments with interest. But strictly from the side
lines as a spectator. ;)

"Paul Revere" is now retired! <LOL>

John Velez
                     A.I.C. - Abduction Information Center -
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."