From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:45:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:43:22 -0400
Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder


 >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:10:02 EDT
 >Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder [was... Re: The Challenge]
 >To: updates@globalserve.net

 >>From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:19 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: RPIT - A Reminder
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net


Dear Gildas and All

Just a couple of points...

 >>The only unimpeachable solid evidence yet identified regarding
 >>the Roswell Event, the photographs taken on July 8, 1947, in
 >>the Headquarters, 8th Air Force offices of General Roger Ramey
 >>at Fort Worth, Texas, have been studied diligently now for more
 >>than a year by the international volunteer RPIT (Roswell Photo
 >>Interpretation Team) reinforced.

 ><snip>

 >>Serious comments and suggestions from any ufologists have been
 >>and continue to be invited. The first annual report of the work
 >>of RPIT also will be posted to the web shortly.

 >To Mr Bond Johnson, Kevin Randle, David Rudiak, and the List

 >I wish to repeat, one last time, what I wrote in recent messages
 >(September 1 and 7):

 >General DuBose had revealed, in the course of a long interview
 >with Jaime Shandera, published in the MUFON UFO Journal of
 >January 1991, how the balloon and radar target debris had been
 >brought to the office of General Ramey, on Tuesday July 8, 1947
 > - he brought them!

 >He explained, clearly enough, how he had met a B-29 which
 >brought to Fort Worth the balloon debris in a canvas pouch, on
 >direct orders from the Pentagon:

 >"I took the pouch in Ramey's office. In it was a bunch of trash.
 >We unbuckled it and laid it out on the floor : it was cold
 >potatoes as far as I was concerned".

 >He confirmed later to Kevin Randle that he never saw the real
 >debris, which explains why he said that the debris had not been
 >switched!

 >All this is pretty simple and clear, and I am at loss to
 >understand all that fuss going on about the balloon photographs,
 >which only feed further confusion on Roswell.

There is something _very_ wrong with Dubose's story _if_ we are
to accept this is the Marcel debris transfer flight of the 8th.

1) No mention at all is made of the unusual nature of the flight
    it's passengers, RAAF Deputy Base Commander Jennings and of
    course RAAF IO Maj Marcel.

2) The mode of transport of the debris is wrong, Marcel and
    others confirm that the debris was wrapped in brown paper
    packages and cardboard boxes. (packages of this type are seen
    in the background of the JBJ FW pictures, one at least is
    still intact)

3) The quantity of debris is wrong, again as attested to by
    witnesses.  Far more debris than a single canvas pouch's
    worth was reported on the Marcel transfer flight as noted
    in (2).

 >Now Kevin Randle says (message of September 11) that this
 >interview of DuBose by Shandera is not corroborated:

 >"...Shandera didn't make notes and didn't record the
 >conversation so that we only have his unsupported statements."

 >That is very regrettable indeed. It would certainly have been
 >appropriate at that time to obtain confirmation of DuBose
 >statement, with audio or videotape records. That would have
 >saved us a tremendous waste of time discussing the balloon
 >pictures.

Was DuBose being liberal with the truth when he gave his
statements?, or because of divided loyalty between his military
oath and his feelings that it was time the story was told, did
he only give us a part of the story, and that, though true was
time shifted by a day or so?. The small quantity of debris
brought into Roswell by Mack Brazel on Sunday 6th is much more
in keeping with the quantity described by DuBose and a number of
authors have concluded it is this debris being transported
through to Washington that he is actually describing.

 >Where did this balloon debris come from?

_That_ is _the_ crunch isn't it? Was It Balloon Debris??

We do have one statement that _should_ be truthfull in all the
tall tales that were given out in those few confused hours, and
it's actually given out by one of the major players in
generating the confusion, FWAAF IO Kirton.

Though at 5.30pm FW time he plainly told the Dallas Morning News
that, all the fuss was over nothing more than a High Altitude
Weather Device and the flight to Wright Field was off.(note this
was 30mins BEFORE Irving Newton who was quoted later as giving
the "official" ID of the debris actually came on duty that
night)

Aprox 30 mins after this telephone interview he was telling the
FBI office in Dallas a very different story.

In the teletype recovered under the FOIA and dated/timed
8-7-47/6.17pm an FBI operative informs FBI Headquarters of a far
more complex story. Can we assume that these two official bodies
would inform each other of the real facts?,

That FBI Teletype reads:

The XXXXX's are in the original, the ******'s are blackouts on
the copy used in this transcription but in "clear" copies show
Maj Kirton's name.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

FBI DALLAS          7-8-47             6-17PM

DIRECTOR AND SAC, CINCINNATI-          URGENT

FLYING DISC, INFORMATION CONCERNING.   *********, HEADQUARTERS

EIGHTH AIR FORCE, TELEPHONICALLY ADVISED THIS OFFICE THAT AN OBJECT

PURPORTING TO BE A FLYING DISC WAS RE COVERED NEAR ROSWELL, NEW

MEXICO, THIS DATE. THE DISC IS HEXAGONAL IN SHAPE AND WAS SUSPENDED

FROM A BALLOON BY CABLE, WHICH BALLOON WAS APPROXIMATELY TWENTY

FEET IN DIAMETER. ********** FURTHER ADVISED THAT THE OBJECT

FOUND RESEMBLES A HIGH ALTITUDE WEATHER BALLOON WITH A RADAR

REFLECTOR, BUT THAT TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEIR OFFICE

AND WRIGHT FIELD HAD NOT XXXXXXXXX BORNE OUT THIS BELIEF. DISC AND

BALLOON BEING TRANSPORTED TO WRIGHT FIELD BY SPECIAL PLANE FOR
EXAMINATION

INFORMATION PROVIDED THIS OFFICE BECAUSE OF NATIONAL INTEREST IN CASE.

XXXX AND FACT THAT NATIONAL BROADCASTING COMPANY, ASSOCIATED PRESS, AND

OTHERS ATTEMPTING TO BREAK STORY OF LOCATION OF DISC TODAY.  *******

****** ADVISED WOULD REQUEST WRIGHT FIELD TO ADVISE CINCINNATI

OFFICE RESULTS OF EXAMINATION. NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION BEING

CONDUCTED.


               WYLY

END

CXXXX ACK IN ORDER

UA 92 FBI CI MJW

BPI H8

8-38 PM O

6-22 PM OK FBI WASH DC  VH

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Examining the above can we make a number of deductions.

1) The Fort Worth Air Base confirm an object purporting to be a
    "flying disc" WAS recovered near Roswell.

2) The object found "RESEMBLES a high altitude weather balloon
    with a radar reflector". "hexagonal in shape" and a balloon
    "approximately twenty feet in diameter".

3) But telephone calls between the Air Force at Fort Worth and
    Wright Field "HAD NOT BOURNE OUT THIS BELIEF".

4) The object(s) WERE being transported on to Wright Field by a
    special flight out of Fort Worth.

5) The AF was informing the FBI because the story had "got out"
    to the news media. Though they didn't mention THEY gave it
    out.

It seems, though it resembled a weather balloon/reflector there
were features which caused enough concern to bring it to the
attention of the technical staff at Wright Field and, as it was
being forwarded to them (4), enough concern to justify the
thought it WAS NOT just a simple weather balloon and reflector.

The story this teletype is saying though, is at total odds with
the story being given out to the press at the time from the
FWAAF by the self same IO, Maj Kirton.

So.....

Remember the debris in JBJ's FW photographs and then remember
two vital quotes from that official FBI Teletype, sent just an
hour or two after JBJ had taken those pictures and while he was
infact still processing them.

1) " ...THE OBJECT FOUND RESEMBLES A HIGH ALTITUDE WEATHER BALLOON WITH
         A RADAR REFLECTOR... "

2) " ...BUT THAT TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEIR OFFICE AND
         WRIGHT FIELD HAD NOT BORNE OUT THIS BELIEF."

In other words Maj Kirton officially informed the Dallas FBI
office that though at first it LOOKED like a beat up balloon and
reflector.

After consulting with Wright Field they realised...

It wasn't.


 >I think David Rudiak has made a good guess: possibly directly
 >from White Sands, where balloon trains had been recuparated and
 >probably stored there. It's even possible that the Fort Worth
 >debris came from a Mogul balloon train (although we don't see in
 >the pictures any tape with flower designs).

 >The question remains; Why did they issue a press release in
 >Roswell, in the first place, which had to be debunked so
 >laboriously in Fort Worth? In short, when Marcel and Cavitt made
 >their report to Blanchard on Tuesday morning at 6 am, there were
 >immediately in a state of extreme urgency, with two possible
 >scenarios:

 >First scenario: the discovery of the debris field was going to
 >go out of control.

 >Second scenario: they were going to cover up the discovery.

 >The decision to publish the press release was probably a
 >brillant move to answer the two scenarios.
 >
 >When then gained control of the debris field toward the end of
 >the morning, they could then put in place the debunking
 >operation in Fort Worth. All this worked very well.

But the teams from Alamagordo AAF were at that very time on the
8th identifying _and_ recovering the remains of the NYU Flight
11 series launches from the day before.

Without a scrap of fuss or misidentification.

Neil.

--
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Univ of Manchester 0                                                 0
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G8KOQ


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