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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1997 > Oct > Oct 31

Interview with Eve Frances Lorgen

From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:35:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:54:34 -0500
Subject: Interview with Eve Frances Lorgen

Hello All,

I just finished doing an interview with Eve Frances Lorgen. I thought I'd
pass it along. You can also find it on my web site at:


Best wishes,

Pat Mason



UR	By way of introduction, why don't you tell everyone a little
about yourself? You have been involved in experiencer support and
related research for a number of years, however your name may not be
well known on the Internet at this point.

EFL	My name is Eve Frances Lorgen, and I have been running an
abductee support group in San Diego County for several years (since
1991). I have a master's degree in Counseling Psychology, experience    
in hypnosis, and have been an abductee since childhood. I have a
bachelor's degree in Biochemistry and I worked in the biotech field for
seven years before receiving my master's in Psychology. My other
areas of study are alien abduction phenomena and experienced
anomalous trauma, paranormal and the occult, dreamwork, oriental
medicine, music, and the Bible.

UR	What prompted you to start the abductee support group and
how did you find abductees? Are you the facilitator?

EFL	 I was motivated by seeing that there was a need within the
community that I lived that wasn't being filled. I had attended lectures
by the San Diego UFO Society on various UFO topics and met other
abductees who were also interested. At the time (1987-1991) I was
going through some alien encounters and trying to process the issues
associated with anomalous trauma in therapy. I completed a master's
degree in Counseling Psychology in 1991 and began counseling clients
with various issues, including abductions, and anomalous trauma cases.
That included satanic ritual abuse cases, sexual molestation cases and
unusual cases where occult and poltergeist activity was apparent. I
started the group around 1991 and facilitated it myself until two years
ago, I have a colleague who is going for his doctorate in Counseling
Psychology who now facilitates the group with me. I have become
involved as a friend with so many of the abductees in my group that it
was best for someone else who didn't have what we call "dual
relationships" with the abductees in the group. This is a professional
ethic used with the counseling profession that states that it is best to
maintain a therapeutic relationship without having so many emotional
ties to the clients. It would be like me trying to be the family therapist=

with my own family, and that would not be as effective as an outside
observer who is not emotionally connected to the family.

I saw that many abductees had a need, and that was for genuine
friendship. Many are isolated in unhappy relationships, and really are
looking for a friend who understands and accepts them as they are. I
thought it was more important for these people to have a friend rather
than an aloof therapist who only talks to them in group meetings. I have
learned more from being a friend to other experiencers than from being
a therapist to them. I am amazed at how much information is missed by
many researchers and investigators in the UFO field, because their goal
was to get information, rather than being a friend in need. As a friend
and counselor of many experiencers I can see the larger picture of what
is happening and follow through with the people after working with

UR	How often does the support group meet?

EFL	The group meets every other month or so at a private
residence. We meet for several hours from 1pm until 7pm. I also try to
do what I call "core group" meetings with the abductees who are at a
more involved level with their abductions, or who cannot come to
group due to distance. Because of the nature of the alien abduction
phenomena, it takes an extraordinary amount of effort to follow
through with the experiencers to keep them involved. What I mean by
this is that there is an external source (directly or indirectly mediated by=

alien presence) acting within these people's lives that exerts pressure
not to attend groups, get information, hypnotic regressions, or meet
with people who have gotten to the core of their alien abduction issues.
This is part of what I refer to as "the spiritual warfare" tactics of the
presence, or who or whatever intelligence is acting behind it. These
activities I call the "detracting efforts of the aliens" to keep
experiencers away from support groups where people may get to their
core memories and issues.

The whole idea is to prevent the abductee from getting the information
that may be not only within them, but with others who have discovered
the alien activities by their own memories. The detracting efforts
increase when the reptile type of alien being is discovered in the
experiencers abductions and also any military involvement. Many of
these detracting efforts go well beyond spiritual warfare and are
outright obvious if you just observe enough cases over a period of time.
Then you will see a pattern emerging, things like phone tapping, clicks
and loud static during phone conversations relating to the subject
matter, black helicopter activity directly over the abductee's or
researchers' home (especially when on phone discussing sensitive
information), odd illnesses, uncoincidental auto accidents, and the
outright threats given by intelligence operatives. As said most of the
time it is more insidious and the form of threatening dream intrusion
scenarios or what I call "stage managed virtual reality" dreams where
it can be like an abduction and someone tells the experiencer not to go
to the group, or therapist, or investigator. Then sometimes after the
dream the abductee awakens with a terrible illness that physically
prevents them from going to meetings, or getting on the information
trail with key individuals.

It is imperative to talk with other experiencers both positive and
negative to get the full panorama of what the aliens or whoever is
abducting people is up to. Some experiencers claim to only have
positive experiences and avoid any abductees or investigators like the
plague if their research or experiences doesn't match what they want to
believe. This is just a form of denial, and not true spiritual wisdom, or
skepticism for that matter. I am not trying to incorporate victim
mentality either, but to have the ability to acknowledge the shadow not
only in one's own experiences, but how it operates in others as a
detracting tactic to keep people "uninformed". It is quite effective, as
you can see in the UFO community.

Spiritual warfare tactics are evident when the "can of worms" gets
opened by someone who discovers that their experiences are not what
they thought them to be, or experiences that do not match any of the
available literature on the subject matter. This may include some pretty
scary and apparently "negative" stuff. Researchers like the late Dr.
Karla Turner addressed some of these more unusual experiences in her
books, "Taken" and " Masquerade of Angels". Her mentor was Barbara
Bartholic, a hypnotherapist and abduction researcher for over 25 years.
Barbara has worked with over 600 cases, and really knows the patterns
of abduction activity that occur in families and especially in the
abductees interpersonal relationships. If it hadn't been for this saintly
woman, Barbara Bartholic, I may still be floundering from crises to
crises in my own alien manipulated dramas that I only learned in
hindsight what the aliens were trying to do.

This subject matter involving the detracting efforts, relationship
manipulations and orchestrations and basic spiritual warfare tactics will
be the focus of my next book. Currently I am writing a book on lucid
dream experiments and my life experiences relating to mystical,
visionary and some alien abduction encounters. It is in the format of the
revelation of a personal myth, and inspires hope for the truth seeker.

UR	How can abductees tell if they are being deceived and

EFL 	If the deception and manipulation or programming is effective
on the individual, then they start promoting the alien agenda and its
correlate spiritual ideologies, which in most cases denounce
Christianity. Instead they may promote the Ashtar Command or other
channeled material which appears to be spiritually empowering, but is
really a delusion. In most cases, these individuals only want to promote
the "positive" experiences and avoid anyone or information that is other
than what they want to believe. But the truth of the matter is, if these
people were so spiritually evolved as they claim to be, then they would
have the capacity to acknowledge their own shadow, and how it
operates in themselves and others.

This self-knowledge takes much effort, therapy, meditation and prayer
to get to the true core issues. One must be strong enough to face the
truth of their experiences without holding on to any beliefs at all. If
their love for approval or their own reputation among peers is stronger
than their love for the truth, then they inevitably will be distorted in
their perceptions. As some say, you must check the fruit on the tree. By
their deeds, and relationships, ye shall know them.

Sometimes the experiencer will get messages from their "guidance"
that tell them to stay away from certain researchers or people who
especially know about the "negative" alien abduction stuff. In one
instance an abductee was led to do certain psychic and healing
exercises in a particular energy grid zone area of her home. The
alignment of this energy zone in conjunction with the psychic healing
exercises opened up her psychic energy centers and it acted as an
energy drain. Then unusual paranormal events occurred in her home
and with her daughter, who began having reptilian abductions. An
interdimensional portal or doorway was created from these "healing
psychic exercises" in the grid zone, which actually increased the alien
reptilian contact. The whole effect was that the abductees and their
family members became psychically drained and woke up with "claw-
marks" and were attacked during the night.

UR	Let's hope that at least some of the positive encounters are
indeed as positive as they seem!

EFL	I have had abductees report experiences where it seemed some
type of benevolent angelic contact was protecting the individual from
negative aliens. Some have prayed to Jesus Christ and Archangel
Michael and have been protected from spiritual warfare attacks in
interdimensional altered states and dreams.

Not all alien encounters are frightening or negative, either in my life or=

other experiencers' lives. I hope there are good aliens out there who are
balancing things out for us "pawns" down here, but at this point I am
skeptical due to the detracting efforts that are directed at the ones
researching this topic.

So a good question arises: How do you keep out the detracting efforts
and spiritual warfare tactics?

1. Continual prayer.
2. Align oneself with the God of Love (Jesus Christ's methods work
well for
3. Do good and help one another.
4. Practice healthy relationships. Get out of addictions and behaviors of
5. Be a good observer.
6. Acknowledge the shadow, and work out your own unresolved issues
and abduction traumas.
7. Share your insights with other experiencers.
8. Processing enough of your own pain and memories to have the
capacity for empathy and compassion. Staying in denial, avoidance of 
"negative or unpleasant" emotions or alien encounters actually
encourages an indifferent and arrogant attitude.
9. Keep a dream journal. Learn and practice lucid dreaming. Do
awareness enhancing meditative exercises.

Much of my forthcoming book about dreams focuses on a benevolent
"beloved father figure" that emerges as a result of intense prayer and
lucid dream experiments.

UR	What have you found to be the most therapeutic method for
dealing with anomalous trauma?

EFL	Dreamwork has been an incredible ally for me and the people
I work with. By the practice of recording your dreams, you enhance
your own capacity for dream recall and altered state alien encounters as
well. By practicing lucid dreaming, you gain a better degree of critical
thinking in your dreams and abductions. By knowing your own dream
process that is unique to you, you will develop the ability to discern
what dreams are your own and what are stage managed alien
orchestrated dreams. Only then will you know how the aliens or
intelligence behind their activities are really trying to influence you. In=

my own experience, I have been able to discern the difference and even
catch them the act of giving me post hypnotic suggestions that would
be detrimental to me. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

How can you really know what the aliens are about if you don't
remember your own experiences, let alone your own dreams?
Awareness is the number one tool for information acquisition. It is
apparent to me we live in a world of imposed ignorance that often
forces us to make choices that we inevitably suffer from. It is important
to share your experiences and talk, talk, talk, and listen, listen, to

Just thinking "positive" about the aliens isn't going to make them go
away, save you, or increase your level of spiritual evolution. It may
only encourage delusion and a false coping method of security. It is the
truth that sets us free, and that means accepting the whole ball of wax,
both positive and negative.

UR	So much has been said about the greys. Do the people in your
support group report seeing other types of aliens?

EFL	I work with several abductees who have had the reptile type of
alien encounter. The most common reptile encountered is very tall, 6-
10 feet tall, has somewhat of a snout face, red or yellow slit eyes (they
also have been observed to have green and yellow eyes, usually snake-
like in appearance), clawed hands, sometimes a tail, and are often
wearing black robes. Sometimes they wear a type of militaristic garb or
breastplate. They are frightening, and often do the sexual assault type
of behavior. They are possessive of their abductees.

The interesting thing about reptilians is their ability of mastering
illusion and shape shifting. A female abductee had an encounter where
a tall being came through an interdimensional doorway or portal right
in her bedroom at night. She became paralyzed and the being sexually
assaulted her, all the while putting in her mind that she is having sex
with her favorite sexual fantasy man. When she looked in its eyes, she
realized it was a reptilian with the slit eyes. Some abductees are better
than others in breaking through the illusions. Reptilians can shape shift
and have been reported to be seen as tall greys, Nordic types and
military men. Some abductees believe the reptile type of alien is the
head honcho on the totem pole and really run the show. These are the
types of beings that are sometimes reported in the underground base
abductions alongside military and lab-coated personnel. These reptile
type or alligator beings have been noted throughout history in occult
and black magic practices. Other beings reported other than greys are
the tall insectoid beings.

UR	Earlier we talked about abductees being misled by the aliens.
What about military, or seemingly military, involvement in their lives?

EFL	Many abductees report military personnel in some abduction
scenarios, but this can be really a shape shifting cover for alien activity=

in some cases. Those with military involvement are often children of
parents who were in the armed forces or intelligence community or in
the aerospace community with top secret projects.

Many report threats by military intelligence operatives and the aliens
themselves if they divulge information or go to see a researcher or
therapist. Most of the time though, the detracting efforts are more
insidious, such as intense feelings of anxiety, stage-managed
threatening dreams, and uncoincidental accidents and odd illnesses. Or
a series of crises after crises, which keeps the abductee too distracted to=

be able to get to the facts.

As a researcher, or abductee, you know you have hit the hot buttons
when your phone is being tapped, your computer jams and crashes,
black helicopters hover over your home, and you are visited by
intelligence operatives. If abductions increase as a result of going to a
support group or after seeing a therapist, be on the alert that someone
doesn't want you to know something about your own experiences, or
those of others. But be careful not to become too paranoid. Balance out
your life with spiritually inspiring work, and try not to focus solely on
the "enemy" or you will have problems. True wisdom comes by being
able to acknowledge and discern the enemy and how it operates. Nip it
in the bud before it becomes a problem. But it must be done tactfully,
and with compassion for others.

These hot buttons seem to be pushed when trying to get information on
the reptile type of encounters and military encounters where aliens and
military personnel are working in apparent unison. Reptilians,
sometimes referred to as alligator men, are described as being negative,
hateful, militaristic, and very sexual. They are often reported making
sexual assaults on both males and females. Some abductees or reptilian
contacts have reported that the reptiles, in black hooded robes and
capes are higher on the hierarchy, and control the greys and even the
Nordic types. It is interesting that throughout history some occultists
have been in contact with the "Alligator Gods" by means of rituals and
some black magic practices.

What is also interesting, is that when one does a study of the types of
abductees that are under surveillance, or have military types of
abductions, you will find that the reptiles are involved. They are very
telepathic and can communicate through mental third eye imagery.
These beings are interdimensional.

UR	What is mental third eye imagery?

EFL	The third eye or the chakra energy center located between the
eyes, forehead area also correlates with the pineal gland in the brain.
This gland is responsible for internal mental imagery that we see in our
mind's eye, rather than optical perception. The aliens can activate these
centers in our minds and cause us to have visions and communicate
through pictorial imagery as well.

UR	There's a couple more things I'd like to go into before I let you
get away! You have got to tell people about the alien matchmaking
thing! I've heard Budd Hopkins talk a little about it. What's going on

EFL	What I have observed is very extreme. Some refer this as more
of a love obsession. Others have used the term "Alien Love Bite." One
researcher I would like to credit for this information is Barbara
Bartholic, who, as I mentioned before, is a hypnotherapist and
researcher with over 25 years experience in working with abductees.

The "love bite" can be described whereby two individuals, usually
abductees or at least one abductee is magnetically drawn to a targeted
partner who the abductee has previously been set up with via the aliens
in some type of bonding process in previous abductions or perhaps
interdimensionally. They may not recall the bonding, yet feel
psychically and empathetically connected. They may have memories or
body memories of having had intimate sexual contact and an instant
chemistry arises between them. Often the abductee is drawn to a
partner who is not the usual type of partner they would naturally be
attracted to, even homosexual in some extreme cases. The common
thing that sadly occurs is that one partner is left unrequited, and the
relationship is cut off after the targeted partner is sometimes very
suddenly "switched off" often after an alien encounter, of which they
are not aware. This topic will be discussed in full in my next book.
These are not normal relationships, and many abductees can tell the

Some believe the alien motive behind this is for harvesting of
emotional sexual energy, or for the purpose of reproductive pursuits
between the two partners. It becomes apparent after the mother has the
child, that the relationship disintegrates and then the child starts getting=

abducted. It is sad and devastating for relationships and families,
because it often breaks them up when a love affair arises as a result of
alien manipulation. Again, these are not like normal affairs or
relationships and one must look at the "whole clinical picture" before
jumping to the conclusion that all abductee relationships are
"manipulated and controlled".

UR	As a biochemist you have worked with fluorescence. Some
people are reporting that they have found portions of their skin glow
under a black light after an alien encounter. You are currently working
with Derrel Sims on his research into this. Please tell us about it and
how we can find out more.

EFL	 After some alien encounters abductees will have a residual
luminescent glow on their bodies that can be visualized with a black
light. The markings are usually subdermal, meaning it can't be washed
off. The colors vary from green, white, lavender, blue, orange, red and
pink. Some mutilated cattle have been observed to also have a type of
fluorescence. There are probably many different etiologies for the
fluorescence and the different colors. Contaminating fluorophores must
be ruled out, of course. We are in the process of having several
fluorescent skin samples tested. This information is classified at this
point until all testing is completed. For an overview of these fluorescent=

findings please see the October issue of Alien Encounters magazine
from the UK. My article is entitled "Beneath the Skin".


Ms. Lorgen is in the process of writing an article on the spiritual
warfare and the psychological issues of abductees. Also, books on her
personal experiences that include the above-mentioned topics in greater
detail are in the works. You can write to her on the Internet at:

=A91997 Unusual Research

[[[[[[[[[[[[ UNUSUAL RESEARCH ]]]]]]]]]]]]]



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