UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1997 > Oct > Oct 29

Re: Questions for Abductees

From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@doitnow.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:23:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:37:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Questions for Abductees

> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark}
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:35:07 PST
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Questions for Abductees

> > > I will say, however, that from just about any point of view,
> > > Keel and Vallee have shed far more darkness than light on
> > > ufology's many vexing questions. Demonologist Keel has a
> > > great 13th-century mind, and Vallee is incoherent when he
> > > isn't being paranoia-addled, and vice versa.


> > I have a great amount of difficulty with the E.T. hypothesis. I
> > find that there is little if anything to support it. Appreciate

> Clarke,

Hello Jerome!

> In fact, there is a great deal to support the ETH.  So far it is
> the most reasonable -- or, as Michael Swords has it, "natural" --
> provisional hypothesis which seeks to explain the hard-core
> evidence: i.e., the stuff that emerges from CE2s, independently
> and multiply witnessed cases, and so on.  I urge you to read
> Swords' "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis and Science" which is
> included in my new book (pages 188-99). If you read the SETI
> literature, you'll be surprised at how much state-of-the-art
> thinking and speculation is consistent with what UFO witnesses
> report -- though nearly all SETI people want nothing to do with
> UFOs.  (At least one -- John L. Casti -- has, however, sheepishly
> conceded the similarities.)

I appreciate the suggested bibliography, I'll look a bit further
into it.:-) While I would agree the possibility of E.T.
visitation being a portion of the equation, sources of
information placed at my disposal would seem to indicate that
this does not account for a majority of events.

> Vallee is simply wrong when he suggests that the UFO question
> is beyond science.  Here he betrays his occult -- even anti-
> rationalist -- sympathies.  In any event, how would he know?

<chuckle>  Sheeeeesh, imagine. Myself and Vallee being lumped
together. The esteemed Duke offers (mistakenly) that I AM an
occultist. I suggest that he (Vallee) is a bit more broad minded
and better read in some important avenues than are most "Nuts and
Bolts" UFOlogists, Jerome.

> For one thing, science has barely addressed the question.  The
> best cases, however, are eminently investigatable by traditional
> scientific method; on those relatively rare instances where that
> has happened, the results have been productive, and suggestive
> not of paranormal phenomena but of hardware and technology.

Would you agree that the video segments as recorded at Mexico
City during the past five years constitute some of this evidence?
 I find them to be extremely interesting. From my point of view
for instance, I find it extremely interesting that as seen from a
distance the video tape would seem to show objects that are
metallic and solid. Zooming in on them however, reveals something
altogether different. They seeming solid object becomes hazy and

> Next year, for example, will see the publication of an in-depth
> investigation of a seminal case where the operation of an
> extraordinary technology can be demonstrated in a way that's
> going to shock everybody who's paying attention.

I will be looking forward to this.

> We are wrong, in my opinion, in making an automatic link between
> daylight discs and (say) men in black.  We may be carelessly
> lumping a lot of things that really have nothing to do with the
> core UFO phenomenon under the general rubric of "UFO activity."

I would be the first in line to agree with this.

I would hasten to add moreover, that there exists NO evidence
circumstantial or otherwise to tie labeled alien abductions and
UFO sighting events together.

> As I have put it (see the intro to my 1993 book Unexplained!), we
> could usefully look at events as opposed to experiences.  A
> radar/visual of a daylight disc is an event; an encounter with
> MIB, however anomalous, is only an experience which exists solely
> in memory and testimony (albeit highly anomalously in some
> instances).

Yup, I have absolutely NO problem with that.

Of note is the fact that at the young age of 9 while residing in
the coastal hills community of San Miguel, California, I and my
boyhood buddy Eddie witnessed not one, but two of these objects
hovering at perhaps no more than 300' late one summer morning.
This happened in 1952. As I much later discovered, my father (a
career Army officer) worked for Army Intelligence. When we
excitedly burst the news of the day's events to him, he
admonished Eddie that he really hadn't seen anything of
importance except perhaps a new aircraft under development. Eddie
was advised to keep quiet about it. I was flat told to keep it to

As I recall, it was a few days later when an (convenient) Air
Force Major friend showed at the door and introduced himself. I
was given an over three hour grilling.

The Major was a bit surprised that I could roughly gauge distance
by estimation based upon known landmarks. The objects cast
definite shadows onto the valley floor between two prominent
hills. I estimated that they were located within a quarter mile
of our position. The end result of this interview was that I was
told that I hadn't observed anything and that were I foolish
enough to relate these events that I didn't witness to anyone at
anytime, not only would my hindend be in serious trouble, but my
father's as well.

I would be among the first to profess belief that these events
(UFO sightings) occur within perceived third dimensional reality.
How could I not given the above related experience as well as
others in later years?

What I take exception to though, is the notion that the majority
of these constitute "Nuts and Bolts" craft.

Kindest Regards...


Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | clark

[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp

Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com