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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1997 > Oct > Oct 26

Re: Questions for Abductees

From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@doitnow.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:08:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:09:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Questions for Abductees

> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Questions for Abductees
> Date: Saturday, October 18, 1997 6:18 AM

> From: clark@canby.mn.frontiercomm.net [Jerome Clark]
> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:03:10 PDT
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Questions for Abductees

> Hi, Duke and everybody,

Hello to you...

I can recall reading your column on occasion when you wrote for
Fate Magazine.

That column was the main reason I bothered subscribing to that
particular publication. I never did get around to writing you
though, as to some of your commentary.

> For some damn reason I can't get into Duke's recent
> posting.  When I tried to print it out just now so to
> have it at hand while responding, it wouldn't print out, either.

I have that problem on occasion with W95.
Usually some sort of misplaced .dll or other resource.
Usual fix: reinstall.

> I respect Duke's intelligence and good humor (the latter
> not always apparent here) while thinking he's wrong about
> many things ufological.  Which will not stop me, by the way,
> from recommending his books, which are well written, smart,
> and stimulating even when I disagree -- and we often agree.

To date, I only have one. I agree with your assessment totally.

> As I've told him, his treatment of Dark Side mythology in the
> recent UFO: The Government Files is the best I've seen
> anywhere.  (A plug here: I deal at length with the same
> subject in my just published The UFO Book [Visible Ink
> Press], a 700-page trade paperback in your bookstores
> this week.)

It is undeniable that a dynamic mythology has been in the
creation process as to UFOs/Alien's/Alien Abduction/Gov
Complicity etc. for a very long time.

In some quarters, this mythology has nearly taken on a
Neo-Religious fervor.

It is curious to me that many if not most of my fellow
experiencers seem to relish taking part in the above
circumstances to one degree or other while I seem to view the
phenomena from a completely different standpoint.

I do of course, have my private conjecture as to why this is so.

Although I for one can unreservedly state that the phenomena
(Abduction) is quite real, I can also state with equal certainty
that I DO NOT believe that the vast majority of it constitutes a
phenomena occurring within third dimensional, physical reality as
we know it.


> Here's a story about my other early abduction investigation: The
> couple who had the experience went separately to a psychiatrist
> who thought the idea of UFOs was nonsensical.  He'd never heard
> of UFO abductions until the psychologist who referred the couple
> to him explained the concept (this was in 1974).  On hearing it,
> he expressed incredulity and even contempt. Thus he was shocked
> out of his skull when, separately, the two reported an abduction,
> with -- yes -- little gray men.  He was so visibly startled that
> he actually scared his subjects.  He told them he did not want to
> see them again.  I think it's safe to say he wasn't leading
> them.

Interesting story. :-)

Having had a few conversations with his eminence that have at
least touched upon this subject, I did not come away with this
impression at all.

Having stated that however, I AM reminded of watching one special
or another presented I believe on the Discovery Channel which
subject was the Methodology of Budd Hopkins. As I observed his
interaction with a young child who apparently was one of the
experiencers along with other members of a particular family, I
was struck by the leading questions being put forth to this

I AM familiar with MUFON methodology in regards to UFO
investigation and have always found it to be the finest model to
base one's own endeavors on. I cannot recall guidelines being
extended to treat the abduction issue however.

Therefore over the years we have witnessed the arrival of one
'expert' after the other upon the scene each with a variance of
the others modality. We are led down the garden path of one
assumption after the other each increasingly inane if not

Let us all wake up to the reality that there exist NO experts nor
professionals in these endeavors. Most who engage in this from my
viewpoint, do so from a position of potential monetary gain and

What we need here is some HONEST research. Research that takes
the TRUE welfare of the experiencer into account and is
responsible. This research would STOP perpetuating the concept of
victimization as regards the Abductee as well as the growing
mythology in regards to these phenomena.


>  The usual answers -- which, for all  his protestation to the
> contrary, Duke keeps coming back to -- don't work, as Stuart
> Appelle and others have shown.  In the most puzzling cases (e.g.,
> Hill, Allagash, et al.) interaction with ETs is a reasonable
> hypothetical explanation.  Right now, in fact, it's hard to
> imagine another one.

I will agree to disagree.

There is nothing within this known physical universe that is
going to allow for people being floated through a solid plate
glass window from a 12th story apartment. Nothing. Likewise as in
my case, no one is capable of being pulled bodily through the
locked steel and glass rear doors of a 1979 Ford Van without
experiencing some sort of extreme physical rearrangement.

These and other occurrences which are rife within the annals of
Alien Abduction Experience Data constitute what can only be
described as paranormal phenomena. This does not make it any less
REAL or potentially dangerous however.

>Which doesn't mean another one couldn't
> come along at some point.  All I know is that we haven't seen it
> yet.

This may indeed come about  when those who profess to seriousness
in their interest regarding the Abduction Experience begin to
study the paranormal equation. Until then, no experiencer is being
served well by any so-called researcher.

Allow me to make a few related points:

With one lone exception, there is to date NO evidence, physical,
circumstantial or otherwise, to tie in the experience of Alien
Abduction with a widely reported UFO sighting. That lone
exception is the Travis Walton Case. While not a widely reported
sighting, each of the witnesses have passed rigid polygraph
examination. A few of these upon multiple occasion.

To date, there is NO evidence of physical implant having been
perpetrated by Alien Beings. Show me a thoroughly documented and
analyzed alien implant!

I have to date, seen absolutely NO compelling evidence to lead me
into believing that hybridization between Aliens and Humans is
taking place or that tissue samples are being collected from
human subjects by Alien Beings.

I state these things with some passion you must understand, even
though I AM a multiple Abduction Experiencer. I will also allow
that I DO have a substantial depression in my right calf that has
never been adequately explained. I do have some conjecture as to
how it got there however, that is related to the abduction
experience. I hypothesize that I caused it to appear.


> Strangeness.  Suffice it to say Peter is an educated John Keel,
> except with rose-colored glasses and a pleasant personality.
> Keel even confided to me once that Peter was going to carry on
> his work.

I would have to say that puts him in good company. It is my
considered opinion that it is from the minds of John Keel and Dr.
J. Vallee that the most enlightening concepts in regards to these
phenomena have come. Most others are mere legends within their
own minds in my humble opinion.

> Cheers to all, most of all my friend and fellow Forrest City Joe
> fan,

> Jerry Clark

Kindest Regards...

Clarke Hathaway

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