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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1997 > Oct > Oct 19

Pt. 2 - Matthew Williams - UK.UFO.NW

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:39:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:49:22 -0400
Subject: Pt. 2 - Matthew Williams - UK.UFO.NW

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 U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  '                            October 19th, 1997
     /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K                          part 2
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This special issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the special issue number. The issue will
be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g.  Repost Matthew Williams - part 1 or part 2.

<Mulder> What other countries could be involved in this? Is it
possible that the United States and Britain are the only countries
involved? Or is it on a more global scale?

<truthseek> I would say Global

<truthseek> A pseudo secret deal was done with France and the UK
over sharing "all" intelligence info

<truthseek> we have a similar agreement with the US.

<truthseek> This means that france is in on the act

<truthseek> Off the point here but it was because of this secret
agreement with france and the UK that the UK Govt backed the French
nuclear tests a few years ago.

<truthseek> They did not want to break off deals etc by not backing
the tests.

<truthseek> The deals involve Nuclear arms secerts having been
shared between UK France and US. So there was a real reason for UK
and US to let those tests go ahead. Not many people know that!!!!

<truthseek> I would imagine that Mossad and other high level intel
orgs are involved. Even KGB probably has an angle on this. I am not
sure about the truth behind the conspiracy theory that the Russians
were helping the US with

<truthseek> the UFO problem and this is why they relaxed and opened
the borders... interesting thought though.

<truthseek> I cant help but think of Reagan and his "UFO speech". I
think he knew more and I think he was giving us all a very big hint!
Thanks ??

<bambina> Matt, I've talked to "contactees" (don't like the term
abductees) who have said that they have been in these underground
facilities. They also mention seeing MEN in lab coats, and one
mentioned MJ-12. This speculates that our govt's are taking
contactees also. Any thoughts?

<truthseek> Well if the abductee scenario is true in regards GOVT
and abductions then contactees would be taken too sure.

<truthseek> I think this goes without saying....

<truthseek> The only trouble I have is knowing what is the truth. We
must tread carefully with the use of hypnosis.

<truthseek> It is a useful tool but I did a session once where the
abductee recalled events with GOVT people and it seemed like he was
talking about a USA scenario

<truthseek> when we heard all he had to say it sounded exactly like
a scene from the movie Roswell. We discounted this info

<truthseek> I think we must be even more careful in the western
world because like it or not we are all saturated by UFO TV and media
and it does sink in

<truthseek> I do not discount what these people say totally it is
just that so many times the fantasy that is created rings of TV or

<truthseek> It does in the cases I have dealt with.

<truthseek> What I need now is proof. I want to have the names off
lab coats and the vehicle registrations

<truthseek> which "should" be there if the abduction is not a

<truthseek> When you start to delve in those areas the abductee
rebels. This is when *I* think they are trying to maintain the

<truthseek> We then try and get the person back on a sensible track
and start again.

<truthseek> Trained hypnotsist can tell when this is happening
anyhow. It is an interesting facet of hypnosis.

<truthseek> I just hope that everything that people say under
hypnoisis is not taken as gospel by those listening. We must be
careful. Thanks ??

<BonzaiBon> What exactly, in full description, is your belief that
is going on in these underground bases? If you believe that there are
vehicles being stored there of extraterrestrial origin, do you
believe that we are enveloping that technology ourselves? For what
reasons would we use that technology?

<truthseek> for those who havent tried yet my cuseeme is running on

<truthseek> for those who havent tried yet!!!

<truthseek> this is a webiste I maintain

<truthseek> http://members.aol.com/alienep/index.htm

<truthseek> also visit our ftp site at

<truthseek> where there are loads of piccys and text files from my
hard drive

<truthseek> Well at Rudloe Manor I only think that they investigate
the UFO sightings. I don't have any info to speak of UFOs stored or
alien bodies,

<truthseek> unless you take on board a Remote Viewer who I asked to
go there (he didn't know me) and he got the tunnels bit spot on... he
did say there were aliens there.

<truthseek> This is problematic as I have never spoken to anyone who
has worked there who can back this up.

<truthseek> I am not sure that there are underground alien bases. I
hold final judgement. I find it an interesting and compelling idea
but I just haven't been able to prove it.

<truthseek> I cannot accept the anecdotal evidence which I am given
- by unreliable sources and by abductees.

<truthseek> I only go with information which can be backed up in
other ways - which is why 99% of what I am told in regression
sessions I cannot really use to PROVE to the world what is taking

<truthseek> I bear these things in mind but they aren't part of my
reality at the moment.

<truthseek> If you want my speculation on what is going on based on
the rumours I have heard they go something like this:

<truthseek> Aliens engineering peoples souls via metaphysical and
electronic equipment.

<truthseek> Aliens and MOD studying cloning and soul transferance

<truthseek> Aliens giving GOVT cloning technology so Govt can create
hybrid race and drone workers.

<truthseek> Govt doing secret experiments on some captured

<truthseek> the usual.

<truthseek> I can't verify these things.

<truthseek> Sorry I couldnt be more helpful on that one. ??

<hackit> ask him if hes been approached by "anyone" telling him to
back off!!!!!!

<truthseek> Only spammy researchers who are far too paranoid for
their own good and by people not involved in the subject who think
that the MOD work I do will get me into trouble (gentle warnings)

<truthseek> No I have never had ANY trouble at all. Infact I welcome
it. I want to meet trouble head on - face to face, hence why I go
into secret MOD establishments and face off the people there.

<truthseek> I think people are very paranoid and double guess what
"will happen to you" when they have no direct experience of these
threats themselves.

<truthseek> I have spoken to such "terrifieds" and they try very
hard to give you the frighteners.

<truthseek> I think these people are far worse than those
non-existent govt people they accuse.

<truthseek> Infact they probably do the job for them... hehe ;-)

<truthseek> I think there are people who do get hassled but the ways
this happens are far more subtle.

<truthseek> I think that a lot of the UFO researchers are the one we
should be careful of. I am very suspicious of a number of

<truthseek> If anyone is expecting a call from the MIBs it won't
happen. What will happen is you will get a researcher turn up at
your house, con you out of your master camcorder tapes and photos
along with the negs and run

<truthseek> this has the effect of hacking people up and making them
upset. Then the fighting starts and this keeps people tied up.

<truthseek> I swear this is the game plan, diversion from the goals
and to make people despondent with UFO researchers because of bad

<truthseek> Some UFO groups and people cannot behave and I think
they are far worse enemies of the subject than the GOVT - but then my
question is

<truthseek> are the govt behind those Groups and individuals

<truthseek> Time and time again we see infiltratuion by GOVT of UFO
orgs. NICAP was a good example

<truthseek> a few of our beloved british groups behave in a manner
which beggars belief. Case files go missing and never see the light
of day and real research is supressed AT ALL COSTS.

<truthseek> This is what I have been up against.

<truthseek> Theres the conspiracy if you ask me - they are inside
your groups.... ! ??

<John_z> Some people say that abductees could be suffering some kind
of mental ilness, they also say that as it runs in families it is
probably hereditory what do you think about this?

<truthseek> I am asked all the time do I believe the abductees. I
have to say yes.

<truthseek> The consistency of what is said by them is sometimes
uncanny. Only small points but those things that you as a dedicated
researcher can pick up on.

<truthseek> It takes a lot of absorbtion of cases to be able to look
at all the info.

<truthseek> Yes in my opinion they are telling "a" truth.

<truthseek> I don't think it is the only truth. I think that their
stories run deeper than they are aware of. You sometimes scratch the
surface of these things.

<truthseek> What I feel - from some personal experiences which would
take longer than I have to talk about (perhaps - coax me), I believe
that the alien scenario is a screen memory.

<truthseek> I think the experience is far more profound than just
medical experiments - but this is the only way it can be understood
by people when in a physical state.

<truthseek> My own belief of the parts of abductions which we
understand is that the aliens are not exactly physical.

<truthseek> I think that the aliens are metaphysical and come from
what I can only term as spiritual realms.

<truthseek> I think the realities they exist in cannot be fully
undertood by us in normal concept and this is why the abductees are
often confused at the deeper levels.

<truthseek> The surface abduction stories remain the same but the
deeper stuff just goes awol.

<truthseek> I think we are looking at a spiritual interface and I do
not believe that there is anything negative about it.

<truthseek> I honestly believe that all"abductions" are positive no
matter what the person feels. I have yet to come across a case wher
there has not been some positive influence in peoples lives.

<truthseek> I am troubled by the Budd Hopkins stuff and David Jacobs
because I have never met any "abductees" with scare stories like

<truthseek> Even the abductees who were scared *during* their
experiences have come away with far greater understandings of their
own situations

<truthseek> and life in general. I think it gives them perspecives.

<truthseek> Many I know have gone so far towards the aliens that
they want to be with them and want to leave this life behind. This is
another reason I feel the aliens leave those frightening memories
with us

<truthseek> I feel they are trying to persuade us to root ourselves
here. We are not all quite ready for what they have to tell us.

<truthseek> I have no personal experience of this myself - I am not
an abductee. This is the feeling I get from hearing those people who
are abductees. Profound eh....

<truthseek> And I must say that before 1990 Iwas a total skeptic.
Since my first UFO sighting the subject has brought me to a faith in
"something" or someone else out there which is above us.

<truthseek> I am not saying I am worshipping aliens, simply that I
now am open to much more and the experiences I have had have enabled
me to enjoy my life to a much fuller degree than I think I would have
had not seeing the things I have seen.

<truthseek> So in that way I feel a little like the abductees -
enriched by something.

<truthseek> So you got your 1 pennys worth. hehe. I bet I was really
ambigiuous on some of that.... ;-) thanks ??

<{ChuD}> " DO u think any country might blow the "cover" on ufo's,
what would be the uk/USA reaction to a country that did?"

<truthseek> I think some countries have tried - Mexico, Belgium,

<truthseek> The trouble with this subject is that unless it actually
touches somebody in some way people cannot believe in it fully.

<truthseek> Take me for a classic example - pre 1990 I didn't
believe in anything

<truthseek> I joked about peoples UFO sightings. I would have
watched the TV progs and then scratched my head a little and thought
ah well I will believe it when I see it.

<truthseek> Now to a certain degree people WILL believe what they
are told by others. It is when the groundswell is high enough

<truthseek> that then BELIEF will change and everyone will believe.

<truthseek> It takes people to be brought to belief slowly. It will
not happen overnight unless the subject touches people in some way.

<truthseek> So to answer your question

<truthseek> Some countires have been touched and they are nearer
than other countries but it doesn't help if your speaking to people
who are not touched.

<truthseek> Also there is without a shadow of a doubt heavy press
censorship in the UK and US on these subjects

<truthseek> take Arizona for instance - they could not stop people
seeing the UFOs

<truthseek> but they could affect the way it was reported and

<truthseek> The mayor seemed to be either told to shut up or he
wanted to close the story down himself.

<truthseek> That was a coverup

<truthseek> Take MEXICO as another example - that story made total
mexico news coverage, and went all around the wire and news services
of the world. It was not touched by ANY US or UK tabloids or TV.

<truthseek> That was afterall WORLD news. Sightings commented on the
lack of coverage.

<truthseek> So in a way if Independence Day was taking place for
real in some lonely part of the world or even in the next state, or
county some GOVT people and Press people would still not be telling

<truthseek> This is why UFOlogy needs to be grass roots, so we can
bypass the normal channels of communication in order to feed the

<truthseek> and when we all have it then we just lobby TV and press
to take these stories seriously

<truthseek> Grass roots is the way forward. ??

<BonzaiBon> why did they not take his film away from him upon seeing
him filming?

<truthseek> Who are we talking about ?

<Crow> that was a while back

<Hideout> bonzaibon: you can now speak in the channel

<Crow> shall we come back to BonzaiBon

<truthseek> okies

<truthseek> I think Bonzai may be referring to the cameraman from
Sightings. Thats a complicated issue

<truthseek> remember the base I told you about was covert. That is
where their problems lie.

<truthseek> In the UK if bases are covert they need special
exemption rules in order to take your tape because a covert base is
not a military base be definition.

<truthseek> For this reason they do not tell you you cannot film and
take photographs so if you do then they can not take them from you.

<truthseek> I have gone into detail on this point with the MOD
police here in the UK. We were totally covered for us not being
arrested or having our tapes taken.

<truthseek> What we did though was risky because you never can tell
if they will just try to take the tape by brute force and lie about
it. And they do have weapons down there, but not on show.

<truthseek> So its a stale mate really. If they had tried to take
the tape I would have started a fight and asked for the real police
to be called in and got them to tape possesion of the tape. I can be
devious you see.

<JeroenW> Question: I can still hear Steven Greer (on Art Bell) talk
about aliens. He told Art that US Prez. Truman won the election
campagne because of his promise to reveal the UFO coverup. After he
won presidentship no-one heard about it anymore until on a press
conference a reporter asked him about his promise.... Greer told
that the tears sprung into Truman's eyes.... What could scare a
president so much?

<truthseek> On the next question:Well I dont know about Greers

<truthseek> It sounds a bit far fetched but not impossible. We heard
the same rumours about Kennedy and others.

<truthseek> Reagan was the most open and he wasn't respected for
what he said.

<truthseek> Carter said he saw a UFO sighting and he was quoted as
wanting to find out more - it never happened.

<truthseek> Churchill here in the UK asked for info on UFOs and was
just told by the MOD that it was nothing of real concern when behind
the scenes they were doing many investigations.

<truthseek> This makes me wonder if the public office letters of the
GOVT actually hide the fact that perhaps Churchill was told more. We
can never find out now, unless somebody spills the beans.

<truthseek> And then we will all try and run down the credibility of
the source. Catch 22.

<truthseek> There is a very good saying - who do you believe a lie
from ,a king or a beggar.

<truthseek> I think that lies when given by high ranking sources are
listened to and this is why most public believe there is no cover up
on UFOs.

<truthseek> Leaders are not put into office to expand peoples minds
- they are there to govern and just think if you get into office

<truthseek> and you are told "Yeah we know about aliens and UFOs but
if you tell anyone about it you won't make it past this term in
office because we will smear you"

<truthseek> What would you do?

<truthseek> I think presidents are the puppets of bigger leaders.
Those leaders are the unknowns - the secret societies leaders.

<truthseek> America and the UK is run by them. Little is known about
their activities.

<truthseek> If we want answers about the aliens we should ask the
66th degree arch Satanist freemasons who probably have lunch with the
aliens every day ;-))))))

<truthseek> perhaps....there may be some truth in this. ??

<SUFOIT\PA> Hi Barry here, I am the International Director for
SUFOIT/PARA-4, I am a little uncertain of the "ethics" of certain
UFO groups and investigators, yet we must work together to seek the
truth, how do you handle these situations?

<truthseek> Name dropping again ;-) hehe. Youll be on sighting show
yet! ;-))))))

<truthseek> Its just a complex game of life. You have to duck and
weave and try and keep people on your side.

<truthseek> Always be open and give away evey piece of information
you can (without breaking witness confidentiality)

<truthseek> and by this you set an example.

<truthseek> If you then try and show that behaving in an open manner
gets you credit and recognition then people want to behave in the
same manner.

<truthseek> It is almost like training a dog to do something and
then rewarding it.

<truthseek> God I sound patronising don't I.

<Crow> hehe

<truthseek> I just reward excellence and then this allows people to

<truthseek> Those who hide and shy away or start to attack you I try
to work with where I can.

<truthseek> Some of these people who attack do not want to listen
and if they cannot be dealt with then I earmark those people as

<truthseek> I dont cut them off but I deal with them very carefully.

<truthseek> I think the key is to keep things positive where you can
- chastise bad behaviour but reward excellence.

<truthseek> It makes the bad boys feel left out in the cold.

<truthseek> At the moment though I think we are surrounded by bad
boys everywhere and they feel in good company

<truthseek> and this is why it is important to set higher standards
than theirs -and things will change slowly.

<truthseek> Or they will look stupid... ;-)

<truthseek> I would like ot thank you all for being so patient and
listening to this. It is very kind of you.

<truthseek> I realise that IRC is not the easiest medium to hear a
speech on... ;-)

<Crow> its been great Matthew we have really enjoyed it.

<John_z> it's been most informative and enjoyable

<Rainey> I would just like to say to Matt on behalf of all the
channel thank you very much for sparing some of your valuable time to
answer our questions, please feel free to join us anytime, as I'm
sure we would all be pleased to see you again.

<truthseek> I would like to thank also the people who asked me on
here Vadir and Raine and Crow who have been helping me,

<Hideout> whats matts email addy again?

<truthseek> If anyone wants to CuseeMe I am still xmitting on IP

<truthseek> also my FTP page is ftp://members.aol.com/alienep/irc/

<Vadir> truthseek, 2night has been a blast :)

<truthseek> to go and get those articles on some of the things we
have been dealing with tonight

<truthseek> along with photos.

<truthseek> my email is truthseekers@celtic.co.uk

<Dave_UFO> Thanks Matthew - a riviting evening.

<hackit> thanks matthew its good to see someone not afraid to speak
the truth for a change

<truthseek> my pleasure. I suggest that insteading of me droning on
we open it up and i will just jump in deep end styley and do an
normal IRC fest.... what say ye?

*** Rainey sets mode: -m

Then follows a free for all as #ufo goes crazy.

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