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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1997 > Oct > Oct 18

Nightwatch Online

From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com> [Peter Brookesmith]
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:49:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:34:14 -0400
Subject: Nightwatch Online

The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List.
Here's another old one I found & should have responded to earlier.
For that reason I'm quoting rather a lot of the original message.
Bits have also been reformatted to hold the preferred line length.
Some snips are indicated by ellipses, thus [...].

>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Nightwatch Online
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:57:02 -0400

>My respects to my friend the Duke, but I believe he's missing the

>>From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@compuserve.com>
>>Subject: Nightwatch Online - Discussion with Velez
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>[...] I didn't say Javier PdeC MUST react to
>>*anything*. I said that if he HAD had a change of heart
>>[about his attitude to ecology, "the environment", etc] (however
>>this may be established) then those inclined to believe he was
>>abducted on the night in question would have a small piece of
>>circumstantial evidence on their side. [...]

>In an earlier post, wondering what de C's environmental beliefs
>might be, our favorite nobleman noted:

>>It would still be interesting to know what the answers really
>>are, even if it would be somewhat unkind to ask why no one
>>raised these questions before.

>So the point is that the worthy Duke, from the vastness of his
>Welsh fortress, does in fact believe that de Cuellar's
>environmental record might just possibly provide evidence (even
>if only a small piece) in the Linda case.

The point, from my crumbling ancestral *f*astness, is contained
in that immediately previous quote from me. There is a subtle
difference between what I'd find interesting to know and what I
believe. What *I* believe or not (most of which, as you well
know, is unsuitable for family viewing) is neither here nor

>[...] Peter's impish commentary depends
>on an unstated assumption, namely that abductees change their
>behavior in ways that correspond with what they believe the
>aliens have told them. There is no evidence for this.

No, Greg, old fruit. I'm sure there's not. But that is neither
here nor there, either. My actual unstated assumption is that
people presented with dramatic evidence - or dramatically
presented with what they believe to be evidence - that such and
such is so and so, may believe it, even to the extent of changing
their previous position on that question. This has nothing to do
with being an abductee or not. Heavens, I've even done it myself
- ironically, for one example, on the very issue of
"environmentalism" - without having to be abducted.

>[...] Many of Hopkins' abductees believe they've had
>environmental messages from the aliens.
>Not many, to the best of my knowledge, have acted on them. On the
>basis of this data, there is no way to predict how any abductee
>will react to a believe that he or she has received these
>messages. Therefore there's no way to predict how de Cuellar
>would react. And because of that, there's no way that his
>environmental record could possibly provide even circumstantial
>evidence suggesting that he does or doesn't believe he's been

I agree entirely with this last sentence, but then I didn't
propose that anything to do with de Ceullar's environmental
record *would* indicate anything else about his *beliefs* about
his alleged abduction. The logic is deadly (note that word)

1. PdeC has a reactionary or conservative or neutral position on
environmentalism up to and including 28 November 1989.

2. After 29 November 1989, PdeC is observed to alter his position
- perhaps radically - to any point to the "left" in favor of
environmentalism, green politics, conserving wildlife, etc

3. Some people say PdeC was abducted early on 29 November 1989 and
handbagged by one of them with a dead fish and a "green" message.

4. That PdeC had a change of heart about environmentalism late in
1989 supports the story that the aforementioned some people are

What I'd like to know (and "Witnessed" doesn't tell us) is whether
(1) and (2) are true. If they are, (4) follows. It may not be the
greatest logic on the face of the Earth, and there may be totally
different reasons for this alteration. If (1) and (2) *are* true,
but let's say it occurred because of what PdeC's mistress told
him, it may be that the hoaxers in Linda's case knew about this
alteration and were inspired to slide the dead fish into the story
so that they could one day use the logic laid out above to support
their merry fabrication.

I'm not suggesting that *no* alteration in PdeC's views proves
anything. That corollary doesn't follow. *I* am not saying *some*
alteration *proves* anything. I'd just like to know what is
actually the case.

[huge snip]

>And if [Linda] wasn't influenced, why should de Cuellar be?

Why should he not be? Individuals have different reactions to
experience. Turn this question around and you see how it makes no
sense. In other words, if Linda *had been* influenced, why should
de Cuellar be too? He might be being paid millions to lobby for
the chemical industry, and think: "Sod the aliens. I vote for
Mammon." Or he might just not be convinced by an hysterical
demonstration that was a bit thin on science.

>This whole discussion makes me sad. If we began from accurate
>information, we wouldn't have to have it.

Oh, Greg, cheer up, do, have a dram or listen to the Schubert
octet or something. It is the accurate information that I am after
so that we can begin at all. And although you observed a certain
impishness here you seem to have overlooked what it was up to.

best wishes
(big grin)
Pressando D. Melopoeia
Metro Gnome

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