From: Mike Smith <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:02:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 22:03:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculouso Hi all, Loy Pressley wrote: > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 13:22:49 -0700 > From: Loy Pressley <firstname.lastname@example.org> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <email@example.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Zeta Notso Ridiculouso [Snip] Just some general points about my post and interstellar travel. Given our present level of technology and the political will, it is possible for us to build craft cabable of between 10 and 25% SPEOL. We also have an understanding of other newer technologies that may in the future provide even faster speeds. All of this is well documented and understood. I was merely tring to point out that, 'Can aliens travel from there to here ?' is a stupid question to ask. If it is possible for us to do this at our present technological level, without resort to warp drive or anti-gravity, then another more technologically advanced society could get here no problem. > > We as society are already technologically > > cabable of building interstellar craft. And in fact have already > > done so, both of the voyager probes and the one that came before > > them(can't remember the name) (??? Pioneer ???)are going > > interstellar within our lifetimes. > Yep, in seventy five thousand years or something they will reach the > vicinity of the nearest star. That was not the point. The point is, without really trying to we've already sent objects interstellar. The fact that if they arrive at another star system they'll be dead and so will we is irrelevant, sending the objects is not difficult. > I'll wager that what we say we can do and what we finally > determine to be possible to do are entirely different things. > And we aren't even proceeding in the directions it takes to make > it possible for us to develop drives powerful enough to make any > semblance of practical interstellar travel possible. We are so > terrified of anything nuclear that we can't even launch a very > slow probe to Saturn without worldwide protests. NASA is at present studying exotic propulsion methods for deep space travel. Plus the methods suggested by Project Daedalus were hardly exotic, more brute force and ignorance. Just like todays chemical based rockets. Designs for Nuclear rockets have already been tested and modelled, ask Stanton. > > As to speed, well yes at present such missions would be slow. > So slow as to make it impractical, I'll wager. Not really. Cassini, that has just launched, is a long term mission as were the voyager probes and pioneer. Deadulus was envisiaged to take between 26 and 43 years to arrive at the nearest star. Depending on which set of speed estimates you take (either 10 - 25% SPEOL plus accelaration/decelaration) Automated long term missions are not a problem. Scientists would have all sorts of things to study, even in deep space. The stellar Bow-wave, The Oort cloud and Deep space itself to name but a few. Okay, now we get to quantum physics. > > The speed of light in a vacuum is seen to be a universal speed > > limit. There are certain quantum events to which this limitation > > does not apply. > I don't understand...which quantum events? I thought all these > 'events' were thought to aberrations of observation. > > The Quantum Tunneling effect is one of these. This > > is okay, its accepted. > Please explain. Here goes. [Simply, I Hope] A quantum particle reaching a barrier, through which it cannot pass. [Here's the tricky bit: calculations, equations, observations. Just have to take my word for it, me and the other ranks of trained monkeys] Has a finite chance of appearing on the other side. This appearing on the other side takes place without passing through the intervening media, or at least by passing through it very 'quickly'. It appears that particles on a quantum level can use this tunneling effect to exceed c. It was previously held that no coherent information could be passed via this method of travel as this would effect causality, and also that such effects could not occur on a macroscopic level. However, it now appears that this is not the case. As was stated in my previous post some physicists believe that they have transmitted Mozart at 3.7 c, using microwaves. They have not as yet 100% ruled out experimental error, but are working on doing so. As you can hopefully understand, this is quite a science-shattering event and is therefore subjected to even more scepticism than possibly even ufology. It does have UFO releated implications though. As it seems to suggest, scientifically, that the good old universal speed limit that we've all come to know and love, is not in fact an absolute limit. [Snip] Regards to List and Loy, Mike People looking QM for references via the web may like to try some of the following: Search altavista/yahoo for the quantum tunneling effect or could just try typing QM etc. http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=quantum+tunneling+effect&hc=0&hs=0 A Good and simple explanation of the effect and it's possible implications for macro-physhics http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/qm_paper.html Atomic Tunneling (Macro Quantum Tunneling) http://www.lassp.cornell.edu/~ardlouis/dissipative/atomtunnel_research.html A Nice graphical example of wave functions and barriers http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/qm_paper.html A Humourous Brady based Explanation http://www.sfo.com/~costanos/QuantumBrady/marshat.htm Hope these help, don't have a web reference for the Mozart stuff. Got that from various publications/journals. But it's probably held somewhere electronically, if you're interested look around.
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